If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.

I can agree with you more about Canada - its the one that I don't fully understand the logic behind, and I don't accept the fentanyl OR immigrant issue... Mexico needs to step up in that regard, but not Canada so much...

However, I'm very interested in seeing the rounds of reciprocal tariffs on other countries that DO tariff/vat/duty us very unfairly.

Again, I am not sold about the Canada front - there is SOME there; dairy, logging, etc - but I'd love to see more explanation from Trump here.



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instead of reading the headlines go look up what they were cutting
and see if you have a problem about it. dont go on cnn. just go see
the actual stuff on the doge site. it's pretty informative and it's just

ext

I don't watch CNN or go to the CNN website.

see if you have a problem with the stuff they are cutting.

I have issues with them cutting forest rangers, cutting critical IT infrastructure staff, firing veterans, and several other cuts they've made.

I know they have cut a bunch of jobs, then had to rehire a bunch of people, with backpay for days they didn't work. That is wasting money. I know
that Elon himself has claimed they "accidentally" fired people and "accidentally" cut funding for important research, like ebola. The time
wasted while these jobs and programs were in limbo wasted money.

I know that the courts are being tied up with cases about all the goofs
they've made, and that is wasting money.

I also know that they accidentally exposed a secret CIA facility. That it
was a "black site" was debunked, but it was a secret facility none the less.

Some of the "fraud" that DOGE has found has also been debunked, even though they still claim to have cut it.

If they wanted to *save* money, they'd have to start with forensic
accountants, certified fraud experts, and subject matter experts. That
team would go through and find all the crazy crap that really does need cutting, find all the fraud that needs prosecuting, and we'd have a lot
less stupid stuff happening.

Instead, Elon and a bunch of tech guys who know next to nothing about government or confidentiality, went it and did a bunch of CTRL-F
searches on key words, not understanding that some of those words and
acronyms means something else in government work. Since they don't
understand the data, they've messed up a lot. Yeah, they also found some
legit stuff, but even blind squirrels sometimes find nuts.

Based on their track record, as self reported by Musk, I would not trust DOGE to be properly reporting what they are up to anymore than I would trust MSNBC to be properly reporting what DOGE is up to.


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If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.

I can agree with you more about Canada - its the one that I don't fully understand the logic behind, and I don't accept the fentanyl OR immigrant issue... Mexico needs to step up in that regard, but not Canada so much...

Yeah, Mexico needed to step up regarding the border and apparently has.

However, I'm very interested in seeing the rounds of reciprocal tariffs on other countries that DO tariff/vat/duty us very unfairly.

China was the country I was expecting us to impose tariffs against, and the administration is working on that. Canada was not on my bingo card.


* SLMR 2.1a * My baby she wrote me a letter...
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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Bogomips on Tue Mar 11 2025 07:21 pm

control... its crazy. Conversation and compromise is a baseline that is need > in this country - and I only feel it being stifled by one side of the coin.

I have to disagree with the statement that it is being stiffled by (mostly, I hope you meant) just one side. I tend to align mostly libertarian, which my personal description means "conservative government, socially liberal". I was registered R for quite a while, but the shift to the extreme gained more and more momentum as the "Tea Party" with more and more Rs losing their freaking minds and eventually culminating (so far) in the MAGA movement, soured my stomach and I am now officially registered "N" (for No party affiliation).

Anyway, I say all of that to indicate that I look at both the "magats" and the "TDS" crowds as equal in number, equal in stupidity, and equal in bullheadedness with zero give-a-shit about the other side's arguments. This is where I disagree with the earlier statement, and it is my opinion that the stiffling of the conversation is being done equally by both sides of the coin. BUT - that coin is only a minority of Americans, and only a minority of their respective "sides". I think the vast number of Americans are more "moderate" with some "right-leaning" and some "left-leaning", but that the two extremes are now definitely the HUGE vocal minority.

... I align most w/ Chris Cuomo, to be honest - I used to be more a democrat > but over the years they lost me and I now question everything and have been

I like Chris - I also like to listen to Jon Stewart and Rachael Madow. My number one priorty when chosing who I continue listening to is well spoken, articulate arguments, whether I agree with them or not. I tend to agree the least with Madow, but she's at least extrememly smart and well spoken, and her arguments are valid, following most of the rules of logic and avoiding most falacies.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Mar 13 2025 10:31 am

instead of reading the headlines go look up what they were cutting
and see if you have a problem about it. dont go on cnn. just go see
the actual stuff on the doge site. it's pretty informative and it's just

ext

I don't watch CNN or go to the CNN website.

many are LIKE cnn, where they feed half truths and are designed to make
money and scare people.

I have issues with them cutting forest rangers, cutting critical IT infrastructure staff, firing veterans, and several other cuts they've made.

There can be state forrest rangers or federal forrest rangers. is there a need for FEDERAL forrest rangers? on top of that, forrest rangers don't even make that much money.

Regarding firing vets, they can get another job though their jobsite. its real easy to pickup jobs. most of these firings are probational employees which are new hires or transfers. they were probably in a position that was not needed.
They can get on their job site and get a better job most likely.

Hey shit happens. if you are in a job where it's not important, you get downsized. that's progress. do you just want them sitting in there doing nothing? that's what a lot of them do.

Some of the "fraud" that DOGE has found has also been debunked, even though they still claim to have cut it.

If they wanted to *save* money, they'd have to start with forensic accountants, certified fraud experts, and subject matter experts. That
DOGE to be properly reporting what they are up to anymore than I would trust MSNBC to be properly reporting what DOGE is up to.

it seems like you are just letting the headlines influence how you think about this. Our president has not even been in office that long. everything takes time and the things you are afraid of haven't really come into fruition.

I'm all for cutting down the govt and checking things out. our govt is out of control with spending. everything is very very convoluted. the govt is fucking nuts how it does things. I am not surprised there are errors during these cuts.

You didn't answer my quesion on if you checked out the dodge site as well.
you should just go check it out.

you should just stop worring. turn off the news. it's just there to make you scared and make money.
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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Fri Mar 07 2025 03:57 pm

I personally believe there is a pitfall with this plan, in that modern Western generations lack the work ethic and the preparation to actually succeed.

I can hear ya there, and you may be right - more problems that our grossly overgrown government have created. Since I was in high school, the public education system of our country has fallen to lows, attempted to erase history, explore anti-white values and become a breeding ground for LGBTQIA+ism.

I think it is deeper than that. It trascends indentity politics.

I can think of many labels to apply to my school time. "Jail" is one. "Cult to Mediocrity" is another. See, the problem is that back in the 90s it was parents who were ok having mediocre kids who achieved mediocre results. With no preasure from home to become anything better, the small percentage of nerds who wanted to at least try was frowned upon from both their classmates and the teachers. I mean, if you are a lazy bumass, if the guy next seat is trying to get his homework done within schedule, he is somehow highlighting you are not, right?

And the problem there is parents trained their children to not give a flying fuck back then, and these children are now adults who don't give a flying fuck today. Therefore you have computer scientists in charge of development teams who don't know how git branches are merged because they don't give a flying fuck.

I don't consider myself very good at anything I do, but seriously, last time I was at a selection process for a job they took a bunch of candidates and put us to the test for half a month. First task they asked from us candidates was to set a Git repository. By the end of the selection process only 2 of us had created a repository with commits in it. The rest were sitting on their lazy asses because nobody gave a flying fuck about Git.

Man, I can't believe I am a grumpy old grandpa already. I am not even 40 yet.


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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Nightfox to Mickey on Sun Mar 09 2025 06:11 pm

That's what I thought too, but I suppose if a country isn't doing much to stop bad things from going into another country, that could look bad for that country. In the US, I think there's an impression that there are a lot of drugs that come into the US from Mexico, and perhaps Trump's thought is that if they can help prevent drugs from leaving their country, that would be more effective than just the US border patrol dealing with it.

Well, for the most part a country not letting "bad stuff" pass through it on the way to another country is not a matter of image, it is a matter of practicality.

I mean, Morocco is badly impacted when drugs and gangs and whatever go up through it on their way to Europe. No King or Pripe Minister wants to deal with that crap in their country unless they are getting their cut. Morocco might use some of this as a political bargaining chip in international affairs (ie. "Give us a better tomato export deal or we might let more immigrants go up north!") but that is far from the default position.

Something similar happens with Mexico. Mexicans might complain that North Americans are racist, but you should see the low consideration Mexicans themselves have towards people from Guatemala trying to go north through Mexico.


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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to hollowone on Tue Mar 11 2025 19:18:00

It's simple; we're going to use our power to force the removal of tariffs, taxes and fees that MANY countries have put on American export over several decades. That is a fact - and the sooner countries remove them, the sooner we will remove our new tariffs; HOW is that unfair H1?

Canada has had marketing boards for decades and they can be quite powerful, having alot of control with government. Beef, milk, and egg marketing boards come to mind. It causes the government to attach tarrifs to any incoming products in these catagories to control the prices up here. I believe we pay way more than you guys for these items.

I live in the country and get many of these items directly from the source. The Gov always say that foreign milk and eggs are inferior and think that is just plain bullshit. :-)

Mick Manning
..........
Central Ontario Remote Synchro
centralontarioremote.net:2323
<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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China was the country I was expecting us to impose tariffs against, and the administration is working on that. Canada was not on my bingo card.

From more of the talking points, they've focused on the 180B surplus that the US imports from Canada that Trump doesn't think we need...

I don't know how I feel about that seeing as Canada has always been our closest of ally, HOWEVER do you think a 180B surplus is something we should address in SOME way??

I do think Trump has at least brought our economy, immigration and jobs to better results than past POTUS's, so I give the benefit that he's implementing a plan - I just need the info to keep flowing...



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I have to disagree with the statement that it is being stiffled by (mostly, I hope you meant) just one side.

Anyway, I say all of that to indicate that I look at both the "magats"
and the "TDS" crowds as equal in number, equal in stupidity, and equal in bullheadedness with zero give-a-shit about the other side's arguments.

You sound like me, except I was more liberal previously and was pushed a bit to the right after Obama, and way more while enduring a failed Biden POTUS. [IMO, completely failed in every way from day 1.]

I HEAR your comparison about how the extremes of both sides, but in my experience [I live in Portland, OR - might be a part of it...], taking away the extremes, I have plenty of right-leaning friends that are more than willing to discuss, compromise and listen to the other side - but LITERALLY every single liberal in my ecosystem has completely shut down to ANYTHING other than aligning with every single bulletpoint of the liberal [woke] agenda.

I voted for Trump; and lost a long-term relationship and many many friends... they wouldn't even debate during and after Trump, but they've completely shut down since 11/5/24.



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paulie420 wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

@VIA: VERT/BEERS20
@MSGID: <67D2449C.62510.dove-deb@vert.synchro.net>

If it works like you think it does, the country that would be cancelling first would be the USA, and then Canada would respond by cancelling the retaliatory tariffs. Then we would be back to the existing trade agreement... you know, the one that Trump signed back during his first term, proclaiming it to be the best deal ever.

I can agree with you more about Canada - its the one that I don't fully understand the logic behind, and I don't accept the fentanyl OR
immigrant issue... Mexico needs to step up in that regard, but not
Canada so much...

However, I'm very interested in seeing the rounds of reciprocal tariffs
on other countries that DO tariff/vat/duty us very unfairly.

are a mine
What Canada Trump wants is our vast mineral wealth in the North West Territories and Nunavut. There mines in Rankin Inlet and Yellowknife, Gold in Yellowknife.
Also Better forward operating locations (FOL)to get at Russian Bombers from crossing into our Arctic. 5000 foot runway. I once flew to a camp to fix a satellite dish.

Everything ran on dishes up there.

There is a location in Rankin Inlet NWT, I know, I cleaned it during a strike.

Mile long runway with arrester cables for fighter jets. Only problem is that current US jets couldn't fit in the hanger back then. Was that General ever pissed as well as our telling him it would take 2 weeks to get is operational

When they fly in the North there are snow storms where you look up and 100 feet up there is a storm. The planes make approaches and if they can see the runway at 500 feet they land, if not, they suck up the gear and go to firewall throttle and try to land again , if they cannot land they go to Iqauit on Baffin Island. It's fun. 3-4 hour flight to Baffin Island

BTW there is now a road into Tuktoyaktuk (I heard), that helps for another FOL actually on the Arctic Ocean.

Remember -40C and no wind is a nice day.

Alan

Again, I am not sold about the Canada front - there is SOME there;
dairy, logging, etc - but I'd love to see more explanation from Trump here.

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Regarding firing vets, they can get another job though their jobsite. its

ea

easy to pickup jobs. most of these firings are probational employees which

r

new hires or transfers. they were probably in a position that was not

eeded.

They can get on their job site and get a better job most likely.

Incorrect. Probational employees also include those who were recently promoted, you know because they were doing a good job. This is a good
example of what happens when you turn a bunch of dumbassess loose in a
system where they can CTRL-F a word and then just slice a bunch of people
out.

Hey shit happens. if you are in a job where it's not important, you get downsized. that's progress. do you just want them sitting in there doing nothing? that's what a lot of them do.

Now that they are being forced to hire them all back, with backpay, you
must also realize that, for the ones who really were not doing their job it
is going to be more difficult to get rid of them. They now have
evidence that they were "targeted previously for no reason" so going after
them again is going to be a lot tougher.

If they wanted to *save* money, they'd have to start with forensic accountants, certified fraud experts, and subject matter experts. That DOGE to be properly reporting what they are up to anymore than I would

rus

MSNBC to be properly reporting what DOGE is up to.

it seems like you are just letting the headlines influence how you think

bout

this. Our president has not even been in office that long. everything takes time and the things you are afraid of haven't really come into fruition.

No, I worked in government and know how it works.

Correct, the President hasn't been in office that long but in the short
time his lackey... or master... Elon has managed to screw a bunch of stuff up.

Elon is a lot quicker at screwing stuff up than sleepy Joe, but that
doesn't make what they are doing "efficient."

I'm all for cutting down the govt and checking things out. our govt is out of control with spending. everything is very very convoluted. the govt is

ucking

nuts how it does things. I am not surprised there are errors during these cuts.

I am also for cutting it down. However, the way they are going about it is WRONG. There are errors because they are not using any common sense before just doing stuff. That is what is "fucking nuts."

You didn't answer my quesion on if you checked out the dodge site as well. you should just go check it out.

I have checked it. It is not very impressive.


* SLMR 2.1a * Brevity is the soul of utter incomprehension.
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China was the country I was expecting us to impose tariffs against, and the administration is working on that. Canada was not on my bingo card.

From more of the talking points, they've focused on the 180B surplus that the US imports from Canada that Trump doesn't think we need...

I don't know how I feel about that seeing as Canada has always been our

loses

of ally, HOWEVER do you think a 180B surplus is something we should address

n

SOME way??

I think part of that is because we need their oil and their wood more than
they need some of our stuff. Part of the reason we shifted to getting 60%
of our oil from Canada was so we wouldn't have to rely on the Middle East. Should we go back to getting oil from countries that don't like us?

I do think Trump has at least brought our economy, immigration and jobs to better results than past POTUS's, so I give the benefit that he's

mplementing

a plan - I just need the info to keep flowing...

He has done better on the border, I will give them that. I would also note that this is one area where Elon didn't get his hands into it so that could
be why.

As for the economy, the markets would disagree with you there.


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Anyway, I say all of that to indicate that I look at both the "magats" and

he

"TDS" crowds as equal in number, equal in stupidity, and equal in bullheadedness with zero give-a-shit about the other side's arguments. This

s

where I disagree with the earlier statement, and it is my opinion that the stiffling of the conversation is being done equally by both sides of the

oin.

This, except I would throw "dumbasses" in there somewhere. ;)

BUT - that coin is only a minority of Americans, and only a minority of their respective "sides". I think the vast number of Americans are more "moderate" with some "right-leaning" and some "left-leaning", but that the two extremes are now definitely the HUGE vocal minority.

And this, too.


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Re: Re: US tariff retaliation
By: paulie420 to Jimmy on Thu Mar 13 2025 06:07 pm

I HEAR your comparison about how the extremes of both sides, but in my experience [I live in Portland, OR - might be a part of it...], taking away

I have lived in AK for the past 30 years, and we typically tend to think of ourselves as more of a "purple" live and let live state, so I don't know how much of that influences my answer.

I only know a few personally who grudgingly voted for Trump or Harris, but willnot particiapte in all of the outward displays of nonsense. These people (2
Trumps and 3 Harris) seem to be much more willing to have intelligent conversations. Anyone else I know personally who participates in all of the outward displays of nonsense from either side will absolutely not even considerlistening to someone from the other side. My personal sphere seems to include
about an equal number of both, and my personal observations (without any scientific blind studies) conclude that neither side is more or less obtuse about it than the other.

I recently moved to the Mississippi Gulf Coast as a "pre-retirement" move - allof my 5 kids have grown and left the house and I could no longer stand the coldand the shoveling. I've only been here for about 8 months, so I have not reallyhad a chance to "get in the weeds" with people politically to see if it's any
different here. There did seem to be just as many trump flags flying in peoplesyards, off the backs of their trucks, and maga hats as there were back in AK.
But much fewer Harris signs, which is probably to be expected.

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Re: US tariff retaliation
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Mar 14 2025 09:17 am

r

new hires or transfers. they were probably in a position that was not

eeded.

They can get on their job site and get a better job most likely.

Incorrect. Probational employees also include those who were recently promoted, you know because they were doing a good job. This is a good

i dont believe that. you dont get put on probation when you are promoted. it's not the same as a job xfer. in the fed govt everything has codes and forms and shit and everything is separate.

Now that they are being forced to hire them all back, with backpay, you
must also realize that, for the ones who really were not doing their job it is going to be more difficult to get rid of them. They now have
evidence that they were "targeted previously for no reason" so going after them again is going to be a lot tougher.

That's your interpretation of it. i disagree.
so they had off and they get back pay. so what? they had a little vacation and no harm done.

dude you must not know much about working as a fed. sometimes there are screwups and people miss a month's worth of pay. being a federal employee is like working in a world of bullshit and red tape.

Correct, the President hasn't been in office that long but in the short
time his lackey... or master... Elon has managed to screw a bunch of stuff up.

Elon is a lot quicker at screwing stuff up than sleepy Joe, but that
doesn't make what they are doing "efficient."

you sound like you caught a case of the TDS.
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BTW there is now a road into Tuktoyaktuk (I heard), that helps for another

O

actually on the Arctic Ocean.

There is now a road there. Used to be only an ice road during the winter,
but it has been replaced with an all-weather road. A couple of the travel channels on YT have diven/covered it.


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I think it is deeper than that. It trascends indentity politics.

I can think of many labels to apply to my school time. "Jail" is one. "Cult to Mediocrity" is another. See, the problem is that back in the
90s it was parents who were ok having mediocre kids who achieved
mediocre results. With no preasure from home to become anything better, the small percentage of nerds who wanted to at least try was frowned
upon from both their classmates and the teachers. I mean, if you are a lazy bumass, if the guy next seat is trying to get his homework done within schedule, he is somehow highlighting you are not, right?

And the problem there is parents trained their children to not give a flying fuck back then, and these children are now adults who don't give
a flying fuck today. Therefore you have computer scientists in charge of development teams who don't know how git branches are merged because
they don't give a flying fuck.

I don't consider myself very good at anything I do, but seriously, last time I was at a selection process for a job they took a bunch of candidates and put us to the test for half a month. First task they
asked from us candidates was to set a Git repository. By the end of the selection process only 2 of us had created a repository with commits in it. The rest were sitting on their lazy asses because nobody gave a
flying fuck about Git.

Man, I can't believe I am a grumpy old grandpa already. I am not even 40 yet.

I love this reply - I've done a few git commits in my day, and still don't understand it... but if you told me a job hinged on it I could figure the whole process out in less than 15 mins... :P

I'm just an old man - and yer right behind me... wait; I don't like how that sounds. Cheers, Arelor.



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Canada has had marketing boards for decades and they can be quite powerful having alot of control with government. Beef, milk, and egg marketing boar come to mind. It causes the government to attach tarrifs to any incoming products in these catagories to control the prices up here. I believe we p way more than you guys for these items.

I live in the country and get many of these items directly from the source Gov always say that foreign milk and eggs are inferior and think that is j plain bullshit. :-)

Its kinda crazy that we're going to see if team Trump bring the milkshake to to the yard; what do you think the over/under is??? :P



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He has done better on the border, I will give them that. I would also note that this is one area where Elon didn't get his hands into it so
that could be why.

As for the economy, the markets would disagree with you there.

Really? I implore you to look at the first Trump POTUS. The economy was blowing up for the vast majority of his term. Only Covid slowed it down, at the very end...



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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He has done better on the border, I will give them that. I would also note that this is one area where Elon didn't get his hands into it so that could be why.

As for the economy, the markets would disagree with you there.

Really? I implore you to look at the first Trump POTUS. The economy was

lowin

up for the vast majority of his term. Only Covid slowed it down, at the very end...

The first Trump POTUS was not bad at all until COVID. The first Trump
POTUS also did not include Elon Musk, did not include tariffs against
Canada, was not post COVID, and did not include several other things that this one does. It also was not post Trump losing in 2020 and getting all pissed
off about it.

If the Trump from the first term were running the country, I would very
likely not have many/any complaints. I was happy enough with the first
term that I voted for him in 2020. But, so far, this term is nothing
like the previous one.


* SLMR 2.1a * It depends on which end he tries to light...
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The first Trump POTUS was not bad at all until COVID. The first Trump POTUS also did not include Elon Musk, did not include tariffs against Canada, was not post COVID, and did not include several other things
that this one does. It also was not post Trump losing in 2020 and
getting all pissed off about it.

If the Trump from the first term were running the country, I would very likely not have many/any complaints. I was happy enough with the first term that I voted for him in 2020. But, so far, this term is nothing
like the previous one.

And exactly the reasons that I'm happy about it - I suppose we'll get to see how these actions will play out. :P I'm on the bullish side.



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