I used to have all this stuff working for years but for some goddamn reason it's not anymore.

Fidonet (in and outgoing) works fine. Netmail to other networks (in and outgoing) works fine but regular packets (echomail) to other networks does not.

this is from Binkd:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fido alias-for fidonet
domain fidonet.org alias-for fidonet
domain amiganet /fido/amiganet 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 2
domain micronet /fido/micronet 2

This is from crashmail.prefs:

INBOUND /fido/inbound/
OUTBOUND /fido/outbound/
STATSFILE /etc/binkd/CrashMail.stats
TEMPDIR /fido/tmp/
CREATEPKTDIR /fido/tmp/
PACKETDIR /fido/packets/


Now, this is not an static error. For some reason, Binkd would send a number of packets to Amiganet and then when I write some more messages it will not touch it.

This file tells Binkd what to send (I think):

ftn@bbsutils:/fido/amiganet.027$ ls
009600c8.try

In the packets directory lies the package itself:

ftn@bbsutils:/fido/packets$ ls
ee2fef00.pkt


I've checked: file permissions, network, DNS. It's all correct. And as I said: it all works with Fidonet.

I have no idea what to try next. Any ideas are welcome.


--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)

So I figured it out, and it's properly silly on my part.

I figured it out. I think.

In Binkd I named the other networks Amiganet, Fsxnet, and so on. But the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet, /fido/fsxnet and so on.

Naturally, Binkd was looking in /fido/Fsxnet.xxx and /fido/Amiganet.xxx.

Oh the joy of case-sensitive software and operating systems.

Now I'm taking a backup of all configuration files...


--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)

Hey Joacim!

On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 14:05:46 , you wrote:

So I figured it out, and it's properly silly on my part.

I figured it out. I think.

In Binkd I named the other networks Amiganet, Fsxnet, and so on. But
the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet, /fido/fsxnet and so on.

Naturally, Binkd was looking in /fido/Fsxnet.xxx and /fido/Amiganet.xxx.

That's because your binkd config file specifies to look in those directories. When using your default zone "2" for every network, it will automatically create the hex extensions on your directories. When using this method (4D addressing), it is better to use one outbound directory, ie:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/outbound 2
domain othernet /fido/outbound 2

This will use 'outbound' as your fidonet outbound (default), outbound.015 for fsxnet, etc.

If Crashmail is properly using /fido/Amiganet, /fido/Fsxnet and so on /without/ the hex extensions, your binkd config may be better off using this as an example, where you put the actual zone number of the network instead of your default zone (2). This is proper 5D addressing, whereas you seem to be trying to use a mixture of 4D and 5D configurations and hoping for the best at the moment:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 21

.. and the same for every other network you have, with their proper zone number. This (I believe) disables the hex extensions and allows you to use directory names without them.

This method only works with Crashmail and a few other tossers that support multiple outbound directories. Aside from that, I'm not sure where you've specified directories with uppercase letters (maybe further into your Crashmail config that you didn't post?) but you will have to deal with that separately.

Now I'm taking a backup of all configuration files...

If it's currently working, back them up. Then maybe look into the difference between 4D and 5D addressing so that you understand better. From what I can tell, your configuration may currently be working, but it is still not correct.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Nick

... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Joacim!

On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 14:05:46 , you wrote:

So I figured it out, and it's properly silly on my part.

I figured it out. I think.

In Binkd I named the other networks Amiganet, Fsxnet, and so on. But
the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet,
/fido/fsxnet and so on.

Naturally, Binkd was looking in /fido/Fsxnet.xxx and /fido/Amiganet.xxx.

That's because your binkd config file specifies to look in those directories. When using your default zone "2" for every network, it
will automatically create the hex extensions on your directories.
When using this method (4D addressing), it is better to use one
outbound directory, ie:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/outbound 2
domain othernet /fido/outbound 2

This will use 'outbound' as your fidonet outbound (default),
outbound.015 for fsxnet, etc.

If Crashmail is properly using /fido/Amiganet, /fido/Fsxnet and so on /without/ the hex extensions, your binkd config may be better off
using this as an example, where you put the actual zone number of the network instead of your default zone (2). This is proper 5D
addressing, whereas you seem to be trying to use a mixture of 4D and
5D configurations and hoping for the best at the moment:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 21

.. and the same for every other network you have, with their proper
zone number. This (I believe) disables the hex extensions and allows
you to use directory names without them.

This method only works with Crashmail and a few other tossers that
support multiple outbound directories. Aside from that, I'm not sure
where you've specified directories with uppercase letters (maybe
further into your Crashmail config that you didn't post?) but you
will have to deal with that separately.

Now I'm taking a backup of all configuration files...

If it's currently working, back them up. Then maybe look into the difference between 4D and 5D addressing so that you understand
better. From what I can tell, your configuration may currently be
working, but it is still not correct.

Hope that helps.

Great explanation! Thanks! I belive Crashmail grabs the name from here:

AKA 21:2/130.0
DOMAIN "Fsxnet"

But I'm not sure. It's the only place in crashmail.prefs or binkd.conf where it's spelled with a capital 'f'.


--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)

If Crashmail is properly using /fido/Amiganet, /fido/Fsxnet and so on /without
the hex extensions, your binkd config may be better off using this as an example, where you put the actual zone number of the network instead of your default zone (2). This is proper 5D addressing, whereas you seem to be trying to use a mixture of 4D and 5D configurations and hoping for the best at the moment:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 21

To expand some on what Nicholas said, I was running some tosser for a while that was determined not to use the typical "/out.(hex)" directories that
worked well with binkd. My fix, as I am running on linux, was to create symlinks to the standard path using the paths the tosser wanted as the
symlink names.

So the tosser could write to whatever non-standard paths it
wanted to, while the binkd config was pointed to the standard named
"out.(hex)" paths.

Thought I would throw that in there as a potential option if his suggestion didn't quite work.


* SLMR 2.1a * Excuse my driving ... I'm trying to reload.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hey Joacim!

On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 15:35:42 , you wrote:

Great explanation! Thanks! I belive Crashmail grabs the name from
here:

AKA 21:2/130.0
DOMAIN "Fsxnet"

But I'm not sure. It's the only place in crashmail.prefs or binkd.conf where it's spelled with a capital 'f'.

If that's the only place, that's probably it. Whether you want those directories to be uppercase or lowercase, is completely up to you.

Regards,
Nick

... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Joacim!

14 Oct 25 13:16, you wrote to all:

Have you tried killing binkd process manually? It happened to me many times when I'm/was trying to test binkd I ran into weird behaviours.
I was restarting the service -FreeBSD- sudo service binkd restart but somehow not everytime took the config changes, then one time I k9ed every binkd pid.

I used to have all this stuff working for years but for some goddamn reason it's not anymore.

Fidonet (in and outgoing) works fine. Netmail to other networks (in
and outgoing) works fine but regular packets (echomail) to other
networks does not.

this is from Binkd:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fido alias-for fidonet
domain fidonet.org alias-for fidonet
domain amiganet /fido/amiganet 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 2
domain micronet /fido/micronet 2

This is from crashmail.prefs:

INBOUND /fido/inbound/
OUTBOUND /fido/outbound/
STATSFILE /etc/binkd/CrashMail.stats
TEMPDIR /fido/tmp/
CREATEPKTDIR /fido/tmp/
PACKETDIR /fido/packets/

Now, this is not an static error. For some reason, Binkd would send a number of packets to Amiganet and then when I write some more messages
it will not touch it.

This file tells Binkd what to send (I think):

ftn@bbsutils:/fido/amiganet.027$ ls
009600c8.try

In the packets directory lies the package itself:

ftn@bbsutils:/fido/packets$ ls
ee2fef00.pkt

I've checked: file permissions, network, DNS. It's all correct. And
as I said: it all works with Fidonet.

I have no idea what to try next. Any ideas are welcome.

--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)

Javier


--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20170303-b20170303 + HPT 1.9.0 + Binkd 1.1a-115
* Origin: FIDONODO DE JAS | ¯\_(O,O)_/¯ (4:900/733)

Good ${greeting_time}, Nick!

14 Oct 25 07:28, you wrote to Joacim Melin:

That's because your binkd config file specifies to look in those directories. When using your default zone "2" for every network, it
will automatically create the hex extensions on your directories. When using this method (4D addressing), it is better to use one outbound directory, ie:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/outbound 2
domain othernet /fido/outbound 2

Only for 4D adressing, but crashmail uses FTSC compliant 5D BSO.

If Crashmail is properly using /fido/Amiganet, /fido/Fsxnet and so on /without/ the hex extensions, your binkd config may be better off
using this as an example, where you put the actual zone number of the network instead of your default zone (2). This is proper 5D
addressing, whereas you seem to be trying to use a mixture of 4D and
5D configurations and hoping for the best at the moment:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 21

Wrong. With that configuration you don't get proper 5D outbound directories. Crashmail does it correctly. A hex extension for all domains with the exception of the first domain's default zone, e.g:

/fido/outbound
/fido/amiganet.027
/fido/fsxnet.015

.. and the same for every other network you have, with their proper
zone number. This (I believe) disables the hex extensions and allows
you to use directory names without them.

Which is not standard compliant. Unfortunatly binkd's 5D implementation is not correct and everyone seems to believe that it is. The configuration Joacim used is a work around to achieve 5D BSO with binkd:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain amiganet /fido/amiganet 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 2

See FTS-5005 for the specification of 5D BSO.

* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

I've never understood the 4D/5D thing to be honest. Can someone explain it or point me to some documentation that explains it?


--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)

Hey Oli!

On Wed, 15 Oct 2025 17:08:54 +0100, you wrote:

Only for 4D adressing, but crashmail uses FTSC compliant 5D BSO.

I'm fairly certain I just said that. ;)

If Crashmail is properly using /fido/Amiganet, /fido/Fsxnet and so
on /without/ the hex extensions, your binkd config may be better
off using this as an example, where you put the actual zone number
of the network instead of your default zone (2). This is proper 5D
addressing, whereas you seem to be trying to use a mixture of 4D
and 5D configurations and hoping for the best at the moment:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 21

Wrong. With that configuration you don't get proper 5D outbound
directories. Crashmail does it correctly. A hex extension for all
domains with the exception of the first domain's default zone, e.g:

/fido/outbound
/fido/amiganet.027
/fido/fsxnet.015

By reading exactly what he had posted, that didn't seem to be the case... See below.

Which is not standard compliant. Unfortunatly binkd's 5D implementation
is not correct and everyone seems to believe that it is. The
configuration Joacim used is a work around to achieve 5D BSO with binkd:

domain fidonet /fido/outbound 2
domain amiganet /fido/amiganet 2
domain fsxnet /fido/fsxnet 2

See FTS-5005 for the specification of 5D BSO.

I'm just going by what he originally said:

--- Quote
In Binkd I named the other networks Amiganet, Fsxnet, and so on. But the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet, /fido/fsxnet and
so on.

Naturally, Binkd was looking in /fido/Fsxnet.xxx and /fido/Amiganet.xxx.
--- End Quote

Notice there were no extensions in the first sentence.

If his "stuff" was being /written/ to directories /without/ hex extensions, that is NOT binkd's doing, it is Crashmail. If he meant to say "But the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet.027, /fido/fsxnet.015 and so on," then it was simply a case problem where he defined his domains in binkd with uppercase first letters and lowercase first letters in Crashmail. However, that is NOT what he originally said. I gave him an answer to what he originally said.

If what he said was wrong, then my answer was wrong, too. One can only go by what is written when trying to help.

Regards,
Nick

... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1

Joacim Melin wrote to Oli <=-

I've never understood the 4D/5D thing to be honest. Can someone
explain it or point me to some documentation that explains it?

3D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>" (e.g. "1:103/705") 4D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>[.point]" (e.g. "1:103/705.1")
5D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>[.point]@<domain>" (e.g. "1:103/705@fidonet")



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hello Dan!

15 Oct 25 21:57, you wrote to Joacim Melin:

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

Joacim Melin wrote to Oli <=-

I've never understood the 4D/5D thing to be honest. Can someone
explain it or point me to some documentation that explains it?

3D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>" (e.g. "1:103/705") 4D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>[.point]" (e.g. "1:103/705.1") 5D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>[.point]@<domain>" (e.g. "1:103/705@fidonet")

... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL *
(1:135/115)

Javier


--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20170303-b20170303 + HPT 1.9.0 + Binkd 1.1a-115
* Origin: FIDONODO DE JAS | ¯\_(O,O)_/¯ (4:900/733)

Re: I thing I give up
By: Javier Sturman to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 16 2025 12:04 am

Howdy,

15 Oct 25 21:57, you wrote to Joacim Melin:

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

clrghouz (my project) is a 5D mailer, including support for packet 2.2 (which is a 5D packet).

The only systems that understand v2.2 packets is Synchronet (which is what I use).


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Javier Sturman wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

No, I do not.




... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Hey Nick,

15 Oct 25 16:42, you wrote to me:

I'm just going by what he originally said:

--- Quote
In Binkd I named the other networks Amiganet, Fsxnet, and so on. But
the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet, /fido/fsxnet and so on.

Naturally, Binkd was looking in /fido/Fsxnet.xxx and
/fido/Amiganet.xxx.
--- End Quote

Notice there were no extensions in the first sentence.

If his "stuff" was being /written/ to directories /without/ hex extensions, that is NOT binkd's doing, it is Crashmail. If he meant to
say "But the paths the outgoing stuff was written to was set to /fido/amiganet.027, /fido/fsxnet.015 and so on," then it was simply a
case problem where he defined his domains in binkd with uppercase
first letters and lowercase first letters in Crashmail. However, that
is NOT what he originally said. I gave him an answer to what he
originally said.

You are right, I missed that or my brain autocorected it. As the the upper case domains were defined in crashmail.prefs, but not in binkd, I assumed it was simply a upper/lower case problem.

If what he said was wrong, then my answer was wrong, too. One can only
go by what is written when trying to help.

I believe it was, because Crashmail has no concept of a default zone for the other domains. There is only one default zone (for the first domain / outbound).

See https://github.com/ftnapps/crashmail/blob/master/src/crashmail/outbound.c#L65

The outbound directory structure which Crashmail II supports looks like this:

/fido/outbound
/fido/outbound.001
/fido/amiganet.027
/fido/fsxnet.015

It only speaks 5D BSO, nothing else. It does not support the weird binkd style outbound which omits the hex extension. And it has no 4D BSO support.

I made minor changes in the Crashmail sources to outbound.c. My Crashmail II uses Amiga Style Outbound, which is supported by binkd. No stupid hex extensions or .pnt directories.



* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

Hei Javier!

16 Oct 25 00:04, you wrote:

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

Crashmail II, Squish (from Maximus BBS) and SBBSecho (Synchronet).


* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

16 Oct 25 17:09, you wrote to Javier Sturman:

The only systems that understand v2.2 packets is Synchronet (which is
what I use).

Crashmail (Amiga and II) and some legacy tossers, too: GEcho, FastEcho, LoraBBS

* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

Hello Oli!

16 Oct 25 15:58, you wrote to me:

Any of those run without needing a BBS ?

Hei Javier!

16 Oct 25 00:04, you wrote:

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

Crashmail II, Squish (from Maximus BBS) and SBBSecho (Synchronet).

* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

Javier


--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20170303-b20170303 + HPT 1.9.0 + Binkd 1.1a-115
* Origin: FIDONODO DE JAS | ¯\_(O,O)_/¯ (4:900/733)

Hello Oli!

16 Oct 25 16:07, you wrote to deon:

Is the latest version of crashmail here: https://github.com/ftnapps/crashmail ?

16 Oct 25 17:09, you wrote to Javier Sturman:

The only systems that understand v2.2 packets is Synchronet
(which is what I use).

Crashmail (Amiga and II) and some legacy tossers, too: GEcho,
FastEcho, LoraBBS

* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

Javier


--- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20170303-b20170303 + HPT 1.9.0 + Binkd 1.1a-115
* Origin: FIDONODO DE JAS | ¯\_(O,O)_/¯ (4:900/733)

Re: I thing I give up
By: Oli to deon on Thu Oct 16 2025 04:07 pm

The only systems that understand v2.2 packets is Synchronet (which is what I use).

Crashmail (Amiga and II) and some legacy tossers, too: GEcho, FastEcho, LoraBBS

Ahh, wow, OK - I've not used those, but good to know.


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Javier Sturman wrote to Oli <=-

Any of those run without needing a BBS ?

Hei Javier!
16 Oct 25 00:04, you wrote:

Do you know which tossers/packers support 5D addressing?

Crashmail II, Squish (from Maximus BBS) and SBBSecho (Synchronet).

A: Because it destroys the logical flow of a thread of comments,
and makes it difficult to keep up with a conversation.

Q: Why do so many people object to top posting?

A: Writing your reply to a message above what you are referring to
rather than below it.

Q: What is "top posting"?



... Redundant book title: Windows For Dummies
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

Joacim Melin wrote to Oli <=-

I've never understood the 4D/5D thing to be honest. Can someone
explain it or point me to some documentation that explains it?

3D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>" (e.g. "1:103/705")
4D addresses are normally expressed as "<zone>:<net>/<node>[.point]"
(e.g.
"1:103/705.1")
5D addresses are normally expressed as

"<zone>>:<net>/<node>[.point]@<domain>"

(e.g. "1:103/705@fidonet")

Best explanation I've ever read. Thanks!


--- NiKom v2.6.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:221/242.0)