On Fri, 9/20/2024 5:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-20 22:59, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 9/20/2024 7:59 AM, chrisv wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If Linux had existed we would never have had DOS
Linux on an 8088 and 64k of RAM? 8)
I guess the 68000 was also an option...
GCC came out in 1987. Linux in 1991. There may be
something to the timing there. Maybe it wouldn't have
been as easy, to do it earlier.
The 8088 was 1979.
The 68000 was 1979.
The equivalent to the 68000 was the 8086. Or, the equivalent to the 8088 was the 68008.
At the time, people knew better than to buy the 8088 or the 68008.
On 20/09/2024 22:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-20 22:59, Paul wrote:FSVO 'equivalent' :-)
On Fri, 9/20/2024 7:59 AM, chrisv wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If Linux had existed we would never have had DOS
Linux on an 8088 and 64k of RAM? 8)
I guess the 68000 was also an option...
GCC came out in 1987. Linux in 1991. There may be
something to the timing there. Maybe it wouldn't have
been as easy, to do it earlier.
The 8088 was 1979.
The 68000 was 1979.
The equivalent to the 68000 was the 8086. Or, the equivalent to the 8088 was the 68008.
...
On 2024-09-21 04:30, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 9/20/2024 5:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-20 22:59, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 9/20/2024 7:59 AM, chrisv wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
If Linux had existed we would never have had DOS
Linux on an 8088 and 64k of RAM? 8)
I guess the 68000 was also an option...
GCC came out in 1987. Linux in 1991. There may be
something to the timing there. Maybe it wouldn't have
been as easy, to do it earlier.
The 8088 was 1979.
The 68000 was 1979.
The equivalent to the 68000 was the 8086. Or, the equivalent to the
8088 was the 68008.
At the time, people knew better than to buy the 8088 or the 68008.
Millions of people bought the 8088: the original IBM PC and its clones
used it. Interestingly, the Amstrad PC used the 8086. And Olivetti, but dunno if all models.
Millions of people bought the 8088: the original IBM PC and its clonesMy PC clone had an NEC V20 and a hard drive of a monumental 20MB IIRC.
used it. Interestingly, the Amstrad PC used the 8086. And Olivetti, but
dunno if all models.
It was all I could afford
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 19:34:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[snip]
Millions of people bought the 8088: the original IBM PC and its clonesMy PC clone had an NEC V20 and a hard drive of a monumental 20MB IIRC.
used it. Interestingly, the Amstrad PC used the 8086. And Olivetti, but
dunno if all models.
It was all I could afford
I had a V20 too, and (at least where I bought it) I could get a 30MB (RLL) for only $20 more than the 20MB. It was one where you could still do a low-level format. Enter DEBUG and a command like "G=C000:000C". I first
got Spinrite because it could change the interleave,
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 19:34:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[snip]
Millions of people bought the 8088: the original IBM PC and its clonesMy PC clone had an NEC V20 and a hard drive of a monumental 20MB IIRC.
used it. Interestingly, the Amstrad PC used the 8086. And Olivetti, but
dunno if all models.
It was all I could afford
I had a V20 too, and (at least where I bought it) I could get a 30MB (RLL) for only $20 more than the 20MB. It was one where you could still do a low-level format. Enter DEBUG and a command like "G=C000:000C". I first
got Spinrite because it could change the interleave,
On 20/09/2024 01:23, clinker wrote:
Not to derail this thread, which is a good one, but it is possible anmost things are *possible*
operating system will be developed that threaten both Linux and
Windows existence as it is known today.
OS2 had a good run for example. It is still alive and well in some
proprietary industrial equipment because it is impervious to hacks as
no one remembers it.
DOS is still used in a lot of industrial kit ...When all you want is to
load a single tasked application that talks to custom hardware...
On 2024-09-20 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:lot more memory
On 20/09/2024 01:23, clinker wrote:
Not to derail this thread, which is a good one, but it is possible anmost things are *possible*
operating system will be developed that threaten both Linux and
Windows existence as it is known today.
OS2 had a good run for example. It is still alive and well in some
proprietary industrial equipment because it is impervious to hacks as
no one remembers it.
DOS is still used in a lot of industrial kit ...When all you want is
to load a single tasked application that talks to custom hardware...
Makes sense. I worked in that sector in the 90's. The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available. We had to use overlays in the software, or load/download programs with a stub.
Well you could in theory kick the processor into 'large' mode and use a
On 2024-09-20 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/09/2024 01:23, clinker wrote:
Not to derail this thread, which is a good one, but it is possible anmost things are *possible*
operating system will be developed that threaten both Linux and
Windows existence as it is known today.
OS2 had a good run for example. It is still alive and well in some
proprietary industrial equipment because it is impervious to hacks as
no one remembers it.
DOS is still used in a lot of industrial kit ...When all you want is to
load a single tasked application that talks to custom hardware...
Makes sense. I worked in that sector in the 90's. The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available. We had to use overlays in the software, or load/download programs with a stub.
On 2024-09-22 20:02, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 19:34:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[snip]
Millions of people bought the 8088: the original IBM PC and its clones >>>> used it. Interestingly, the Amstrad PC used the 8086. And Olivetti, but >>>> dunno if all models.My PC clone had an NEC V20 and a hard drive of a monumental 20MB IIRC.
It was all I could afford
I had a V20 too, and (at least where I bought it) I could get a 30MB (RLL) >> for only $20 more than the 20MB. It was one where you could still do a
low-level format. Enter DEBUG and a command like "G=C000:000C". I first
got Spinrite because it could change the interleave,
I had an Amstrad PC 1512 DD, ie, dual floppy. I later bought a HD mounted on a card, 32 megs which apparently was the maximum that could be done. Friends of mine had a 10MB HD and complained it was full. So I went for bigger.
Yes, I remember the low-level format thing. The program in my case asked for an interleave factor, and there was a recommendation for 3. I tested several values, and something like 12 got double speed. Amazing at the time. There was also a table of bad sectors to enter manually, but it did not work right because the format found bad sectors and marked them as such in the FAT.
I still have that machine, should still run. Walk.
I had a V20 too, and (at least where I bought it) I could get a 30MB
(RLL)
for only $20 more than the 20MB. It was one where you could still do a
low-level format. Enter DEBUG and a command like "G=C000:000C". I first
got Spinrite because it could change the interleave,
I had an Amstrad PC 1512 DD, ie, dual floppy. I later bought a HD
mounted on a card, 32 megs which apparently was the maximum that could
be done. Friends of mine had a 10MB HD and complained it was full. So I
went for bigger.
Yes, I remember the low-level format thing. The program in my case asked--
for an interleave factor, and there was a recommendation for 3. I tested several values, and something like 12 got double speed. Amazing at the
time. There was also a table of bad sectors to enter manually, but it
did not work right because the format found bad sectors and marked them
as such in the FAT.
I still have that machine, should still run. Walk.
I still have that machine, should still run. Walk.
It's better to leave the unit in the cardboard box :-)
The head on that drive, has probably welded itself to the surface of the platter. Drives back then did not have plastic landing ramps, like they
do today.
The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available.
[snip]
I still have that machine, should still run. Walk.
It's better to leave the unit in the cardboard box :-)
The head on that drive, has probably welded itself to the surface of the
platter. Drives back then did not have plastic landing ramps, like they
do today.
So you'd rather have it in "somewhat better condition" and completely useless than take a chance that you can get some use out of it?
[snip]
DOS is still used in a lot of industrial kit ...When all you want is
to load a single tasked application that talks to custom hardware...
Makes sense. I worked in that sector in the 90's. The only problem
with MsDOS was the small memory available. We had to use overlays in
the software, or load/download programs with a stub.
Well you could in theory kick the processor into 'large' mode and use a
lot more memory
I have a stiction drive here. It needed a tap on the side of the
drive housing, to release the head and allow the spindle to spin.
You could say, this practice made me <cough> nervous. Because
if you hit it too hard, you could be doing long term damage.
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:51:36 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[snip]
I had a V20 too, and (at least where I bought it) I could get a 30MB
(RLL)
for only $20 more than the 20MB. It was one where you could still do a
low-level format. Enter DEBUG and a command like "G=C000:000C". I first
got Spinrite because it could change the interleave,
I had an Amstrad PC 1512 DD, ie, dual floppy. I later bought a HD
mounted on a card, 32 megs which apparently was the maximum that could
be done. Friends of mine had a 10MB HD and complained it was full. So I
went for bigger.
32MB was the largest partition size supported by the early version of
FAT16 (16-bit sector count * 512-byte sector size). The disk could be
larger, but then you'd need more partitions.
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:57:26 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available.
Isn’t that why DOS extenders were invented?
Most of ours used LabWindows, probably version 1 or 2.
Maybe 3? I don't remember.
On 2024-09-25 23:20, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:57:26 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available.
Isn’t that why DOS extenders were invented?
They had to be compatible with the set of libraries you used, and your application. Most of ours used LabWindows, probably version 1 or 2.
Maybe 3? I don't remember.
I used a stub program that run the menu (and initial data taking), then offloaded itself and called another exe with the next section.
I don't remember using a dos extender with it. Wikipedia says there was
one in version 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LabWindows/CVI
I remember it used basic or C. I switched to C with Borland C.
Since MSDOS was less an operating system than a program loader, there
was no problem whatsoever in using all the memory the machine had ...
On 26/09/2024 20:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-25 23:20, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:57:26 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The only problem with MsDOS was the small memory available.
Isn’t that why DOS extenders were invented?
They had to be compatible with the set of libraries you used, and your
application. Most of ours used LabWindows, probably version 1 or 2.
Maybe 3? I don't remember.
I used a stub program that run the menu (and initial data taking),
then offloaded itself and called another exe with the next section.
I don't remember using a dos extender with it. Wikipedia says there
was one in version 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LabWindows/CVI
I remember it used basic or C. I switched to C with Borland C.
Since MSDOS was less an operating system than a program loader, there
was no problem whatsoever in using all the memory the machine had, if
all it was running was your own code talking straight to the Bios or the hardware.
On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 21:17:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Most of ours used LabWindows, probably version 1 or 2.
Maybe 3? I don't remember.
All I can recall of LabWindows is that it was a poor attempt to recreate
the Macintosh-only LabView on Microsoft-compatible PCs.
Remember the Mac II and successors had NuBus for their expansion bus at--
the time, which offered higher performance for connecting instrumentation than anything available in the Microsoft-compatible world, until PCI came along.
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