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  • Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 07:09:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Turing machine deciders:
    Transform finite strings by finite string
    transformation rules into {Accept, Reject}.

    Three page paper provides all the reasoning. https://philpapers.org/archive/OLCDTF.pdf
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>

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  • From Python@python@cccp.invalid to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 13:29:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine
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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 07:42:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/20/2025 7:29 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine

    That is not a Turing machine running another Turing machine.
    That is a Turing machine applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string.

    Three pages that prove the truth about the halting problem https://philpapers.org/archive/OLCDTF.pdf
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Python@python@cccp.invalid to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 16:18:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:42, olcott a écrit :
    On 12/20/2025 7:29 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine

    That is not a Turing machine running another Turing machine.

    It is.

    That is a Turing machine applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string.

    It is "running another Turing machine" by "applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string".

    Your argument is ridiculous. It is similar to:

    "I will compute 12 * 21 with a pencil and a paper:

    12
    21
    -----
    12
    24
    -----
    252"

    Olcott: No you didn't compute 12 * 21 ! You only put ink on a piece of
    paper.


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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 10:35:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/20/2025 10:18 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:42, olcott a écrit :
    On 12/20/2025 7:29 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine

    That is not a Turing machine running another Turing machine.

    It is.

    That is a Turing machine applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string.

    It is "running another Turing machine" by "applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string".

    Your argument is ridiculous. It is similar to:


    It turns out that simulating the machine description
    of a Turing machine is exactly equivalent to directly
    running the underlying machine ALMOST all the time.

    In the very rare cases where they vary one overrules
    the other on this basis:

    Deciders: Transform finite strings by finite string
    transformation rules into {Accept, Reject}.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sat Dec 20 13:56:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/20/25 8:42 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/20/2025 7:29 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine

    That is not a Turing machine running another Turing machine.
    That is a Turing machine applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string.

    Three pages that prove the truth about the halting problem https://philpapers.org/archive/OLCDTF.pdf


    I guess by your logic, Turing Machines can't do arithmetic either, and
    thus the question of "What is 1 plus 2?" is also invalid. After all,
    numbers are not finite strings, but can only be represented by them.

    It seems you want to make computations worthless.
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  • From Python@python@cccp.invalid to sci.math,sci.logic,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Dec 21 11:58:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Le 20/12/2025 à 17:35, olcott a écrit :
    On 12/20/2025 10:18 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:42, olcott a écrit :
    On 12/20/2025 7:29 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 20/12/2025 à 14:09, olcott a écrit :
    Subject: Turing machines can not run other Turing machines

    Of course they can.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine

    That is not a Turing machine running another Turing machine.

    It is.

    That is a Turing machine applying finite string transformations
    to an input finite string.

    It is "running another Turing machine" by "applying finite string
    transformations
    to an input finite string".

    Your argument is ridiculous. It is similar to:


    It turns out that simulating the machine description
    of a Turing machine is exactly equivalent to directly
    running the underlying machine ALMOST all the time.

    "simulating the machine description" ? ? ? This does not even parse !

    In the very rare cases where they vary one overrules
    the other on this basis:

    Deciders: Transform finite strings by finite string
    transformation rules into {Accept, Reject}.

    You're not even trying to address the issue anymore, are you ?

    Anyway, you indirectly admitted that "Turing machines can not run other
    Turing machines" is FALSE.


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