• Turing-machine deciders a precise definition

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 09:34:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 10:59:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

      (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
      string itself, such as containing a particular
      substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

      (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
      computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
      string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
      specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the input is
    an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.

    Note "when interpreted as a machine description" is NOT limited to the
    decider itself doing the interpretation, but is a general objective
    property of the input.

    Your attempt to convert objective criteria into subjective ones is a fundamental error, showing you don't understand what Truth is.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 10:32:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the input is
    an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    Note "when interpreted as a machine description" is NOT limited to the decider itself doing the interpretation, but is a general objective
    property of the input.

    Your attempt to convert objective criteria into subjective ones is a fundamental error, showing you don't understand what Truth is.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 10:43:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

      (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
      string itself, such as containing a particular
      substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

      (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
      computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
      string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
      specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.


    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 11:59:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it the
    right encoding.



    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 11:59:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the input
    is an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    So, what is wrong with my reading of it?

    YOU have the problem, that you don't understand that the criteria are OBJECTIVE and thus don't depend on the decider.

    The property is OF THE INPUT, irrespective of where that input is given,
    so CAN'T be based no the decider.

    Your problem is you don't understand that Truth is an objective
    property, and doesn't depend on who you ask the question to.

    Either the machine described HALTS or it DOESN'T, and the behavior OF
    THE MACHINE that the input is encoding is an objective fact, that
    doesn't depend on what machine you ask it of.

    Note, if your decider can't completely process that encoding, then it is
    the deciders fault, and thus YOUR fault, as the existance of UTMs say
    this is possible.

    If the encoding the decider specifies can't encode this machine, it is
    the decider fault, and thus YOUR fault, as the existance of UTMs say
    this is possible,

    If the encoding just doesn't match the machine, then it is YOUR fault
    for giving it the wrong encoding.

    So, whatever the reason the input doesn't mean what it is supposed to,
    it is YOUR fault, not the problems

    Note "when interpreted as a machine description" is NOT limited to the
    decider itself doing the interpretation, but is a general objective
    property of the input.

    Your attempt to convert objective criteria into subjective ones is a
    fundamental error, showing you don't understand what Truth is.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 11:20:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the input
    is an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    So, what is wrong with my reading of it?


    You derived an incorrect paraphrase on
    the basis of ignoring most of the words.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 11:24:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it the
    right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 12:48:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it the
    right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.

    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine encoded
    (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria that a
    decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    And, from your signature:

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>

    If this *IS* your goal, then you need to start a fully new system of
    logic to work in (as you said), which means you need to start actually building at the foundation.

    You have made the mistake of building on a different foundatation that
    doesn't support your ideas.

    And, after you have made your new foundation, you need to show why it is useful, and what it can do that the existing ones can't.

    It seems you don't even understand the basics of what a "foundation" is,
    so how can you make a new one?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 12:48:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 12:20 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the
    input is an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    So, what is wrong with my reading of it?


    You derived an incorrect paraphrase on
    the basis of ignoring most of the words.


    I wasn't "paraphrasing", I was showing a necessary consequence of it.

    I guess you are just too stupid to understand LOGIC.

    If you can't point out how that doesn't follow, You are just admitting
    your whole basis is a LIE.

    How can H not be "responsible" of the behavior of the machine the input encodes, when that is explicitly one of the things it IS responsible for.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 18:03:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:20 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the
    input is an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    So, what is wrong with my reading of it?


    You derived an incorrect paraphrase on
    the basis of ignoring most of the words.


    I wasn't "paraphrasing", I was showing a necessary consequence of it.

    I guess you are just too stupid to understand LOGIC.

    If you can't point out how that doesn't follow, You are just admitting
    your whole basis is a LIE.

    How can H not be "responsible" of the behavior of the machine the input encodes, when that is explicitly one of the things it IS responsible for.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the
    subset of finite strings that are valid machine
    descriptions a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the
    input string, i.e., the behavior that the input
    itself specifies.

    If you don't apply your bias of certainty that I
    am incorrect you will see that the above paragraph
    derives that H(P)==0.

    computational steps explicitly encoded by the string
    IS NOT THE SAME AS
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the *input* string

    Three different LLMs are able to see that this
    subtle little difference CHANGES EVERYTHING.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 18:08:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it the
    right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine encoded
    (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria that a
    decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    And, from your signature:

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>

    If this *IS* your goal, then you need to start a fully new system of
    logic to work in (as you said), which means you need to start actually building at the foundation.

    You have made the mistake of building on a different foundatation that doesn't support your ideas.

    And, after you have made your new foundation, you need to show why it is useful, and what it can do that the existing ones can't.

    It seems you don't even understand the basics of what a "foundation" is,
    so how can you make a new one?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 20:50:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it
    the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to that
    machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine encoded
    (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria that a
    decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That would
    be the UTM processing of the string.

    If H doesn't correctly decode that string, it doesn't show the semantic property of the string.

    This, since your H DOES stop its interpretation of the string and not at
    a "final state" in the string, its decoding fails to meet the requirement.

    All you seem to be saying is it is ok to lie, and thus the climate
    deniers are correct.


    And, from your signature:

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>

    If this *IS* your goal, then you need to start a fully new system of
    logic to work in (as you said), which means you need to start actually
    building at the foundation.

    You have made the mistake of building on a different foundatation that
    doesn't support your ideas.

    And, after you have made your new foundation, you need to show why it
    is useful, and what it can do that the existing ones can't.

    It seems you don't even understand the basics of what a "foundation"
    is, so how can you make a new one?



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 20:58:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 7:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:20 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.


    Ok, do you understand what this means?

    In particular your 2(b) means that whether the MACHINE that the
    input is an encoding of will halt when run is a valid property.


    You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

    So, what is wrong with my reading of it?


    You derived an incorrect paraphrase on
    the basis of ignoring most of the words.


    I wasn't "paraphrasing", I was showing a necessary consequence of it.

    I guess you are just too stupid to understand LOGIC.

    If you can't point out how that doesn't follow, You are just admitting
    your whole basis is a LIE.

    How can H not be "responsible" of the behavior of the machine the
    input encodes, when that is explicitly one of the things it IS
    responsible for.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the
    subset of finite strings that are valid machine
    descriptions a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the
    input string, i.e., the behavior that the input
    itself specifies.

    If you don't apply your bias of certainty that I
    am incorrect you will see that the above paragraph
    derives that H(P)==0.

    HOW?

    The computation steps encoded by the input string need to be the
    algorithm used by the program in question, and thus the steps so encoded
    the behavior of the program, or you are just admitting that you LIED the
    the input is the one required by the proof you claim to be followinf.


    computational steps explicitly encoded by the string
    IS NOT THE SAME AS
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the *input* string

    Sure it is, as "the string" is "the *input* string"

    Note, every instance of the same string are equivalent, and this since
    that exact same string given to actual UTM(P) shows that it halts, that
    *IS* the behavior that has been encoded into the string.

    Which step do you claim differed?

    NONE, and thus you are admitting to being a liar.


    Three different LLMs are able to see that this
    subtle little difference CHANGES EVERYTHING.


    In other words, you are admitting you are too stupid to think for
    yourself, and have turned your thoughts over to a stupid machine know to
    lie.

    Sorry, you have KILLED all your credibility
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 20:23:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it
    the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine encoded
    (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria that a
    decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That would
    be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 22:01:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to
    describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it >>>>>> the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to that
    machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine
    encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria
    that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That
    would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just
    repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.

    I gusss you must agree and are admitting you are just a bad liar.

    Since you claim you have followed the requirements of the proof, you
    agree that you have chosen a specific H, as a fully defined algrithm
    that computes a specific complete function of its input.

    And that this function, to be correct, matches that of the halting property.

    You also assert that this H, when passed the parameter of the encoded P
    (to be defined below), will return 0, which means reject or non-halting.

    You also assert that you think this answer is correct.

    You also assert that you have built the P mentioned above, per the decscription of it in the proof.

    This means that P itself is also a complete fully defined algorithm that
    uses the algorithm defined in H, giving that H the proper encding of
    itself to ask H about itself, and that then this P will act in a manner conrary to the answer that H gives.

    This means that in the encoding of P, will be an encoding of H being
    passed this encoding of P. And thus, since you agreed previously that
    the algorithm of H will procees this encoded P and map that to the 0/reject/non-halting answer, that these are also the steps encoded in
    the encoded P.

    Because the definition of P says it will act contray to the return
    prediction of H, the steps encoded in P after those steps will be for it
    to just halt.

    Thus, the steps encoded in the input P given to H is precisely the steps
    that H does go through to make its non-halting decision, followed by it halting.

    If the steps encoded in P say anything else, you erred when you built
    the encoding, or LIED when you said you did things by the proof.

    Thus, by your definition above, since the steps encoded in this P lead
    to it halting, the semantic Halting Property of this input is to halt,
    and thus your claim that H is right is proven wrong.

    The problem is you don't have H actually look at the steps encoded in
    the input, but incorrect assume that the steps for H encoded in the
    input are somehow for a different H, or you LIED about properly encoding
    the input to include THIS H.

    Sorry, all you have done is proven you are just a liar.

    I predict that you will just ignore your error and this detailed
    explaination, and just repeat yourself, showing you are just brain dead.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 21:44:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to >>>>>>> describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give it >>>>>>> the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to that
    machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine
    encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria
    that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That
    would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just
    repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 22:52:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
       computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
       string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it to >>>>>>>> describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give >>>>>>>> it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to
    that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine
    encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid criteria >>>>>> that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That
    would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just
    repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just admitting
    that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.

    If you try to claim I haven't shown this, you are just a liar, as you
    just intentionally trimed of that explaination and accepted it without comment.

    Sorry, you are annalated your credibility and your reputation.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 22:02:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it >>>>>>>>> to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give >>>>>>>>> it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the
    machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to
    that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine
    encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid
    criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That
    would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false claim. >>>

    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just
    repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just admitting
    that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    If you try to claim I haven't shown this, you are just a liar, as you
    just intentionally trimed of that explaination and accepted it without comment.

    Sorry, you are annalated your credibility and your reputation.


    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 23:09:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
       string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
       specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it >>>>>>>>>> to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't give >>>>>>>>>> it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by the >>>>>> machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input to
    that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine >>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid
    criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That >>>>>> would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false
    claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just
    repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such a
    transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you can't understand.

    The same string given to differnet machines are the same input with the
    same meaning.

    I guess you don't understand that fact of language because of your
    stupidity.


    If you try to claim I haven't shown this, you are just a liar, as you
    just intentionally trimed of that explaination and accepted it without
    comment.

    Sorry, you are annalated your credibility and your reputation.






    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Dec 23 22:44:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular
       substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave it >>>>>>>>>>> to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't >>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by
    the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the input >>>>>>> to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine will do. >>>>>>>
    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a
    suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the
    input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine >>>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid
    criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. That >>>>>>> would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be
    wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your
    normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false
    claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, just >>>>> repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such a
    transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation
    P simulated by H1 halts

    That there are no finite string transformations
    from the input to H(P) to the behavior of H1(P)
    means that the behavior of H1(P) is outside the
    scope of computation for H.

    Clause AI and ChatGPT always start from scratch
    with no knowledge of prior conversations. They
    have agreed with me on this a dozen times each
    only because they can apply the laser focused
    attention that I can apply.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Python@python@cccp.invalid to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 06:14:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Le 24/12/2025 à 05:44, olcott a écrit :
    [...]
    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation
    P simulated by H1 halts

    That there are no finite string transformations
    from the input to H(P) to the behavior of H1(P)
    means that the behavior of H1(P) is outside the
    scope of computation for H.

    Clause AI and ChatGPT always start from scratch
    with no knowledge of prior conversations. They
    have agreed with me on this a dozen times each
    only because they can apply the laser focused
    attention that I can apply.

    You are exposing dementia Olcott. Ask for help.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 07:12:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave >>>>>>>>>>>> it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by >>>>>>>> the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the
    input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine >>>>>>>> will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a >>>>>>>> suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset
    of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine >>>>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid >>>>>>>>>> criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string.
    That would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to be >>>>>> wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to your >>>>>> normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your false >>>>>> claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong,
    just repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such
    a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you can't
    understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.

    H just gave up before it saw the full behavior, becasue that is what
    this H does.

    P simulated by H1 halts

    Because that is what it does


    That there are no finite string transformations
    from the input to H(P) to the behavior of H1(P)
    means that the behavior of H1(P) is outside the
    scope of computation for H.

    The problem is you don't understand that there are.

    That H doesn't do it, doesn't put it outside the scope.

    You are just stuck in your ignorant subjective world that doesn't
    understand the meaning of truth.

    Meaning is not limited to what the decider does.

    In fact, Computation (themselves) never define a meaning at all, since
    they are purely syntactic operations.

    Meaning is establshed by something outside the computation itself, that
    knows the meaning assigned to the input and output string.



    Clause AI and ChatGPT always start from scratch
    with no knowledge of prior conversations. They
    have agreed with me on this a dozen times each
    only because they can apply the laser focused
    attention that I can apply.


    Nope. THey may say they do, but it has been proved otherwise.

    The AI machines will continue to remember your personal biases so they
    can agreee with you.

    This has been demonstrated by two different people, who have talked with
    AI from different background, but putting in the same prompt, and
    getting opposite ansswers, answers that correspond to their own
    backgrounds as determined by their previous questions.

    Sorry, but since AI is a proven liar. its responces are not "proof" of anything except your own ignorance of what you say.

    And, as pointed out, your prompts include your bias, as you exclude the
    case you don't want to be revealed, as you start with the assumption
    that there is an H that gives the right answer.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 08:48:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave >>>>>>>>>>>>> it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by >>>>>>>>> the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the >>>>>>>>> input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine >>>>>>>>> will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a >>>>>>>>> suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions
    a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine >>>>>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid >>>>>>>>>>> criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. >>>>>>>>> That would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to >>>>>>> be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to >>>>>>> your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your >>>>>>> false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong,
    just repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by such >>>>> a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you
    can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 10:12:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 9:48 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:

       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by >>>>>>>>>> the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the >>>>>>>>>> input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine >>>>>>>>>> will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a >>>>>>>>>> suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.


    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the >>>>>>>>>>>> machine encoded (which is another term for describing) is a >>>>>>>>>>>> valid criteria that a decider must be able to be asked. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. >>>>>>>>>> That would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to >>>>>>>> be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to >>>>>>>> your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your >>>>>>>> false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, >>>>>>>> just repeated the statement which I showed you what it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it. >>>>>>

    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by
    such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED. >>>>>>

    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you
    can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.


    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.

    The question is about the Semantic Property of the Program P which your
    input is supposedly the proper encoding of (our you lied about it in you
    claim you followed the proof).

    Since that encoding fully specifies the EXACT sequence of steps that
    this program P will go to, the fact that your H(P) returns 0, means
    those steps end up at a halting state, and thus the CORRECT answer that
    H should have returned to be correct as a halt decider, and thus your
    claims are proven wrong.

    All you are doing is confirming that you are just a stupid pathological
    liar that is so mentally disabled that it has become impossible for you
    to learn about this subject.

    Sorry, you have killed your reputation.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 09:22:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 9:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 9:48 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.

    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used >>>>>>>>>>> by the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with >>>>>>>>>>> the input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the >>>>>>>>>>> machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are >>>>>>>>>>> a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word
    is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> machine encoded (which is another term for describing) is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> valid criteria that a decider must be able to be asked. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.



    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. >>>>>>>>>>> That would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to >>>>>>>>> be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back >>>>>>>>> to your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating >>>>>>>>> your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property
    holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, >>>>>>>>> just repeated the statement which I showed you what it means. >>>>>>>>>

    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just
    admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it. >>>>>>>

    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by
    such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED. >>>>>>>

    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you
    can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.


    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.


    It never has been my stupidity my IQ is very high.
    It has always your inability to pay 100% complete
    attention to every subtle nuance of meaning of every
    single word.

    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 10:29:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 9:48 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does
    not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.

    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies
    an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very
    subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used >>>>>>>>>>>> by the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with >>>>>>>>>>>> the input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the >>>>>>>>>>>> machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are >>>>>>>>>>>> a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine encoded (which is another term for describing) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a valid criteria that a decider must be able to be asked. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input string. >>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the UTM processing of the string.


    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen >>>>>>>>>> to be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall >>>>>>>>>> back to your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and >>>>>>>>>> repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,
    D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property >>>>>>>>>>> holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something wrong, >>>>>>>>>> just repeated the statement which I showed you what it means. >>>>>>>>>>

    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just >>>>>>>> admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it. >>>>>>>>

    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs
    is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by >>>>>>>> such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED. >>>>>>>>

    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you
    can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.


    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.


    It never has been my stupidity my IQ is very high.
    It has always your inability to pay 100% complete
    attention to every subtle nuance of meaning of every
    single word.

    No, your IQ is minisule, as you deceive yourself into thinking you
    "know" things, when they have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo
    actual logic for the fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to
    ignore reality.

    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing
    systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"

    Your ignorance is so great, you don't seem to understand this fact.

    Your H may be a partial decider, but it can't be a Halt Decider, as that modifier to the name adds the reqirement that the transformation rules
    it uses must produce the same mapping as the already defined "Halting Function", and you aren't allowed to redefine it.

    Since your P halts, and you even admit that, H(P) returning 0 is just incorrect, and no amount of attempts to justify it make the wrong answer right, it just shows you don't understand that you are wrong.

    All you are doing is proving that you self-imposed ignorance has turned
    you into a pathological lying idiot that is too stupid to see his own
    errors.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Python@python@cccp.invalid to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 15:42:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    Le 24/12/2025 à 16:22, olcott a écrit :
    On 12/24/2025 9:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    ..
    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.


    It never has been my stupidity my IQ is very high.
    It has always your inability to pay 100% complete
    attention to every subtle nuance of meaning of every
    single word.

    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.

    Delusions of grandeur
    Grandiose delusions
    God complex
    Megalomania
    Inflated ego
    Overblown sense of importance
    Champagne tastes on a beer budget
    Big ideas, bigger ego
    Suffering from main-character syndrome
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 09:49:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 9:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 9:48 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field
    of the theory of computation totally miss the very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the >>>>>>>>>>>>> machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program >>>>>>>>>>>>> are a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine encoded (which is another term for describing) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a valid criteria that a decider must be able to be asked. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.


    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input >>>>>>>>>>>>> string. That would be the UTM processing of the string. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen >>>>>>>>>>> to be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall >>>>>>>>>>> back to your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and >>>>>>>>>>> repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the
    input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of
    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.

    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property >>>>>>>>>>>> holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something >>>>>>>>>>> wrong, just repeated the statement which I showed you what it >>>>>>>>>>> means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just >>>>>>>>> admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to it. >>>>>>>>>

    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying
    finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs >>>>>>>>>> is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by >>>>>>>>> such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have LIED. >>>>>>>>>

    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you >>>>>>> can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.


    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.


    It never has been my stupidity my IQ is very high.
    It has always your inability to pay 100% complete
    attention to every subtle nuance of meaning of every
    single word.

    No, your IQ is minisule,

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    as you deceive yourself into thinking you
    "know" things, when they have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo
    actual logic for the fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.

    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.


    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing
    systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    Your ignorance is so great, you don't seem to understand this fact.

    Your H may be a partial decider, but it can't be a Halt Decider, as that modifier to the name adds the reqirement that the transformation rules
    it uses must produce the same mapping as the already defined "Halting Function", and you aren't allowed to redefine it.

    Since your P halts, and you even admit that, H(P) returning 0 is just incorrect, and no amount of attempts to justify it make the wrong answer right, it just shows you don't understand that you are wrong.

    All you are doing is proving that you self-imposed ignorance has turned
    you into a pathological lying idiot that is too stupid to see his own errors.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 10:59:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 9:48 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
       (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave it to describe P?

    If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't give it the right encoding.


    The common meaning of the term "describe" does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But the term-of-art does.


    Because is does not directly say that it specifies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the theory of computation totally miss the very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> used by the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the input to that machine, the exact sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> steps the machine will do.

    Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are a suitable encoding for the input?


    I guess you don't understand how word meaning works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
    encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.

    Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is required.


    Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine encoded (which is another term for describing) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a valid criteria that a decider must be able to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked.

    All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Nope, where does it say that?

    It says the computational steps encoded in the input >>>>>>>>>>>>>> string. That would be the UTM processing of the string. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close
    attention. On the other hand

    Individuals with Asperger syndrome often
    exhibit exceptional focus and persistence
    when pursuing their interests or tasks.

    Which has not been renamed to a kind of
    attention deficit by the morons in charge.

    I have hyper focused attention you have lack of
    sufficient attention.

    No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen >>>>>>>>>>>> to be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall >>>>>>>>>>>> back to your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and >>>>>>>>>>>> repeating your false claim.


    The key solution for this (if one exists) is for
    you to read this over and over again until you
    can directly see that nothing like the idea of
    a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or
    implied.

    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject}, >>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the >>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, >>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated
    according to one of two types of properties:

    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input
    string itself, such as containing a particular
    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.

    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>> computational steps explicitly encoded by the input
    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself
    specifies when interpreted as a machine description. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property >>>>>>>>>>>>> holds for the input and Reject otherwise.



    So, it seems you can't point out where I aaid something >>>>>>>>>>>> wrong, just repeated the statement which I showed you what >>>>>>>>>>>> it means.


    Maybe formal correctness is too overwhelming.

    Yes, it seems to have overwhelmed you.

    You didn't respond to my explanation, so I guess you are just >>>>>>>>>> admitting that you removed my CORRECT description and agree to >>>>>>>>>> it.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    (2) Any required value that cannot be derived by applying >>>>>>>>>>> finite string transformation rules to finite string inputs >>>>>>>>>>> is outside of the scope of computation.


    And since the halting behavior of the encoded P was derived by >>>>>>>>>> such a transformation, it was correct and you ADMIT you have >>>>>>>>>> LIED.


    Transform finite string
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs
    inputs

    by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Right, which I showed, but apparently due to your ignorance, you >>>>>>>> can't understand.


    P simulated by H derives recursive simulation

    But only finitely, for this H, then it halts.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values

    P simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own
    final halt state Dumbo.


    Which isn't the question being asked, showing your stupidity.


    It never has been my stupidity my IQ is very high.
    It has always your inability to pay 100% complete
    attention to every subtle nuance of meaning of every
    single word.

    No, your IQ is minisule,

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of
    actual intelligence.


    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when they
    have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic for the
    fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are not interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam is
    the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an option.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.

    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a system.


    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.



    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing
    systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them don't,
    the are not valid.

    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based on the deciders own action.

    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, as
    every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense rule to
    the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.


    Your ignorance is so great, you don't seem to understand this fact.

    Your H may be a partial decider, but it can't be a Halt Decider, as
    that modifier to the name adds the reqirement that the transformation
    rules it uses must produce the same mapping as the already defined
    "Halting Function", and you aren't allowed to redefine it.

    Since your P halts, and you even admit that, H(P) returning 0 is just
    incorrect, and no amount of attempts to justify it make the wrong
    answer right, it just shows you don't understand that you are wrong.

    All you are doing is proving that you self-imposed ignorance has
    turned you into a pathological lying idiot that is too stupid to see
    his own errors.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 10:41:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of
    actual intelligence.


    In other words you know that your IQ is much lower?
    I know that you are much higher than the normal of
    100 IQ. No one below 100 is stupid. You are at least
    some degree of smart. Even 115 IQ is smart, smart
    enough to graduate college.


    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when they
    have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic for the
    fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are not interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The only "errors" that anyone every pointed out
    were never ERRORS in the absolute sense. The
    were only "errors" within the assumption that
    the conventional view is infallible.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam is
    the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an option.


    The conventional view has several key definitions.
    Some of these definitions contradict other definitions
    within this same system.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.


    Yes they are. Yet they contradict other definitions
    of this same system and that is their error. You
    are smart and capable of understanding me. You did
    just bring up a crucially important point.

    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a system.


    It never has been this. It probably did seem
    like this before I could translate my mere
    intuitions into first principles derived from
    standard definitions.


    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.


    My statement was not asking for mere rhetoric.
    It asked for you to show that you understand what
    "semantic entailment" is and how it works.

    When is answered by mere rhetoric this indicates
    that you have no clue what "semantic entailment"
    is and how it works.



    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing
    systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them don't,
    the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based on the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, as
    every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense rule to
    the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 12:13:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 11:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of
    actual intelligence.


    In other words you know that your IQ is much lower?
    I know that you are much higher than the normal of
    100 IQ. No one below 100 is stupid. You are at least
    some degree of smart. Even 115 IQ is smart, smart
    enough to graduate college.

    Various test come out to over 150 (the top for that test) to 180-190.

    I know enough of the theory of the test to understand there general unreliability. Also, there are many types of "IQ" that a person will
    have different levels in.



    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when they
    have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic for the
    fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are not
    interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The only "errors" that anyone every pointed out
    were never ERRORS in the absolute sense. The
    were only "errors" within the assumption that
    the conventional view is infallible.

    No, you don't THINK they are error because they disagree with your preconcieved notions.

    THe fact you haven't (probably because you CAN'T) actually refute them
    shos that they are errors, that you are just chooing to ignore, because
    truth isn't a concern of yours.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam is
    the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an option.


    The conventional view has several key definitions.
    Some of these definitions contradict other definitions
    within this same system.


    So, what are the contradictions?

    Are you sure you are using definitions from the same field?

    You have shown a remarkable failure to understand the concept of
    context, and even a rejection of the concept of the term-of-art.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.


    Yes they are. Yet they contradict other definitions
    of this same system and that is their error. You
    are smart and capable of understanding me. You did
    just bring up a crucially important point.

    Where?

    Since you have stated you never actually studied the system, it would be
    hard for you to actually KNOW the real definitions.


    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a system.


    It never has been this. It probably did seem
    like this before I could translate my mere
    intuitions into first principles derived from
    standard definitions.

    Sure it has.

    You have ALWAYS been confusing the concept of Truth with the idea of Knowledge, which is why the unprovable is so bothersome to you, as it
    points out the distiction that you try to refuse to beleive.

    Note, the concepts of Unprovable, Unknowable, Undecidable, Uncomputable
    are all tightly tied together, coming in a sense from the same source.
    But that this destroyes you bad mental model, you try to (unsucessfully)
    rebel from these.

    Your problem is you



    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.


    My statement was not asking for mere rhetoric.
    It asked for you to show that you understand what
    "semantic entailment" is and how it works.

    Since you don't understand what semantics mean, because you think you
    can change the meaning of words, it will be impossible for you to
    understand the meaning of that phrase.


    When is answered by mere rhetoric this indicates
    that you have no clue what "semantic entailment"
    is and how it works.

    Part of the problem with that term, is it generally is used in the
    context of natural languages, which are actually out of scope of the
    formal logic systems you want to be talking about.

    It deals with a statement being required to be true as a result of the
    basic meaning of the words, but that then requires that the meaning of
    the words be properly and consistantly defined.

    Formal systems bypass this problem, as their axioms DEFINE the basic
    truths of the systems, and their accepted operations the way you can manipulate them, and thus "semantics" boil done to the question of what
    can be the results of applying those operations in all possible
    configurations to those axioms. That BECOMES the meaning in the system.

    But that requires you to accept that there ARE rules in the system, and definitions that need to be followed when talking about the system,
    which seems to need more IQ then you have.




    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing
    systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them don't,
    the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.



    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based on
    the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    But the above doesn't define what an XXX Decider is. Note, it talks
    NOTHING about what makes a given decider "correct" (a word you don't
    seem to understand)

    Yes, your H is a decider (if you fix it to always answer), but it isn't
    a HALT decider though, as its computed results do not match th Halting function, which IS a valid function to ask about per the definition of a Semantic Property.

    You are just showing your ignorance of the langague.

    I guess you think you can submit your Persan Cat into the Westminister
    Dog Show as that show is for trained animals.


    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, as
    every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense rule
    to the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 11:36:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 11:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of
    actual intelligence.


    In other words you know that your IQ is much lower?
    I know that you are much higher than the normal of
    100 IQ. No one below 100 is stupid. You are at least
    some degree of smart. Even 115 IQ is smart, smart
    enough to graduate college.

    Various test come out to over 150 (the top for that test) to 180-190.

    I know enough of the theory of the test to understand there general unreliability. Also, there are many types of "IQ" that a person will
    have different levels in.



    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when they
    have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic for the
    fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are not
    interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The only "errors" that anyone every pointed out
    were never ERRORS in the absolute sense. The
    were only "errors" within the assumption that
    the conventional view is infallible.

    No, you don't THINK they are error because they disagree with your preconcieved notions.

    THe fact you haven't (probably because you CAN'T) actually refute them
    shos that they are errors, that you are just chooing to ignore, because truth isn't a concern of yours.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam is
    the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an
    option.


    The conventional view has several key definitions.
    Some of these definitions contradict other definitions
    within this same system.


    So, what are the contradictions?

    Are you sure you are using definitions from the same field?

    You have shown a remarkable failure to understand the concept of
    context, and even a rejection of the concept of the term-of-art.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.


    Yes they are. Yet they contradict other definitions
    of this same system and that is their error. You
    are smart and capable of understanding me. You did
    just bring up a crucially important point.

    Where?

    Since you have stated you never actually studied the system, it would be hard for you to actually KNOW the real definitions.


    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a
    system.


    It never has been this. It probably did seem
    like this before I could translate my mere
    intuitions into first principles derived from
    standard definitions.

    Sure it has.

    You have ALWAYS been confusing the concept of Truth with the idea of Knowledge, which is why the unprovable is so bothersome to you, as it
    points out the distiction that you try to refuse to beleive.

    Note, the concepts of Unprovable, Unknowable, Undecidable, Uncomputable
    are all tightly tied together, coming in a sense from the same source.
    But that this destroyes you bad mental model, you try to (unsucessfully) rebel from these.

    Your problem is you



    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.


    My statement was not asking for mere rhetoric.
    It asked for you to show that you understand what
    "semantic entailment" is and how it works.

    Since you don't understand what semantics mean, because you think you
    can change the meaning of words, it will be impossible for you to
    understand the meaning of that phrase.


    When is answered by mere rhetoric this indicates
    that you have no clue what "semantic entailment"
    is and how it works.

    Part of the problem with that term, is it generally is used in the
    context of natural languages, which are actually out of scope of the
    formal logic systems you want to be talking about.

    It deals with a statement being required to be true as a result of the
    basic meaning of the words, but that then requires that the meaning of
    the words be properly and consistantly defined.

    Formal systems bypass this problem, as their axioms DEFINE the basic
    truths of the systems, and their accepted operations the way you can manipulate them, and thus "semantics" boil done to the question of what
    can be the results of applying those operations in all possible configurations to those axioms. That BECOMES the meaning in the system.


    Something that almost no one has the capacity to understand
    is that semantics can be fully encoded directly within the
    syntax.

    But that requires you to accept that there ARE rules in the system, and definitions that need to be followed when talking about the system,
    which seems to need more IQ then you have.


    That I can see incoherence that you cannot see would
    seem to show an error on my part from your point of
    view.




    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new
    system, and accept that your system says nothing about the existing >>>>> systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them
    don't, the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.



    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based on
    the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    But the above doesn't define what an XXX Decider is.

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    This is the part that you are having great difficulty
    understanding.

    Note, it talks
    NOTHING about what makes a given decider "correct" (a word you don't
    seem to understand)

    Yes, your H is a decider (if you fix it to always answer), but it isn't
    a HALT decider though, as its computed results do not match th Halting function, which IS a valid function to ask about per the definition of a Semantic Property.

    You are just showing your ignorance of the langague.

    I guess you think you can submit your Persan Cat into the Westminister
    Dog Show as that show is for trained animals.


    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, as
    every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense rule
    to the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.



    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 13:04:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 12:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 11:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of
    actual intelligence.


    In other words you know that your IQ is much lower?
    I know that you are much higher than the normal of
    100 IQ. No one below 100 is stupid. You are at least
    some degree of smart. Even 115 IQ is smart, smart
    enough to graduate college.

    Various test come out to over 150 (the top for that test) to 180-190.

    I know enough of the theory of the test to understand there general
    unreliability. Also, there are many types of "IQ" that a person will
    have different levels in.



    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when they >>>>>> have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic for the >>>>>> fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore reality. >>>>>>

    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are not
    interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The only "errors" that anyone every pointed out
    were never ERRORS in the absolute sense. The
    were only "errors" within the assumption that
    the conventional view is infallible.

    No, you don't THINK they are error because they disagree with your
    preconcieved notions.

    THe fact you haven't (probably because you CAN'T) actually refute them
    shos that they are errors, that you are just chooing to ignore,
    because truth isn't a concern of yours.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam
    is the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an
    option.


    The conventional view has several key definitions.
    Some of these definitions contradict other definitions
    within this same system.


    So, what are the contradictions?

    Are you sure you are using definitions from the same field?

    You have shown a remarkable failure to understand the concept of
    context, and even a rejection of the concept of the term-of-art.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.


    Yes they are. Yet they contradict other definitions
    of this same system and that is their error. You
    are smart and capable of understanding me. You did
    just bring up a crucially important point.

    Where?

    Since you have stated you never actually studied the system, it would
    be hard for you to actually KNOW the real definitions.


    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a
    system.


    It never has been this. It probably did seem
    like this before I could translate my mere
    intuitions into first principles derived from
    standard definitions.

    Sure it has.

    You have ALWAYS been confusing the concept of Truth with the idea of
    Knowledge, which is why the unprovable is so bothersome to you, as it
    points out the distiction that you try to refuse to beleive.

    Note, the concepts of Unprovable, Unknowable, Undecidable,
    Uncomputable are all tightly tied together, coming in a sense from the
    same source. But that this destroyes you bad mental model, you try to
    (unsucessfully) rebel from these.

    Your problem is you



    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.


    My statement was not asking for mere rhetoric.
    It asked for you to show that you understand what
    "semantic entailment" is and how it works.

    Since you don't understand what semantics mean, because you think you
    can change the meaning of words, it will be impossible for you to
    understand the meaning of that phrase.


    When is answered by mere rhetoric this indicates
    that you have no clue what "semantic entailment"
    is and how it works.

    Part of the problem with that term, is it generally is used in the
    context of natural languages, which are actually out of scope of the
    formal logic systems you want to be talking about.

    It deals with a statement being required to be true as a result of the
    basic meaning of the words, but that then requires that the meaning of
    the words be properly and consistantly defined.

    Formal systems bypass this problem, as their axioms DEFINE the basic
    truths of the systems, and their accepted operations the way you can
    manipulate them, and thus "semantics" boil done to the question of
    what can be the results of applying those operations in all possible
    configurations to those axioms. That BECOMES the meaning in the system.


    Something that almost no one has the capacity to understand
    is that semantics can be fully encoded directly within the
    syntax.

    But that requires you to accept that there ARE rules in the system,
    and definitions that need to be followed when talking about the
    system, which seems to need more IQ then you have.


    That I can see incoherence that you cannot see would
    seem to show an error on my part from your point of
    view.

    The fact you can't SHOW it, shows that it likely isn't there.

    Your problem is you have PROVEN that you don't understand the material,
    and thus any incoherence you think you see is almost certainly an error
    on your part.

    If you want to try to convince people you are right, you need to show
    actual proof of your claims, and root that proof in the actual
    definitions of the system, something you have shown you don't actually know.





    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand new >>>>>> system, and accept that your system says nothing about the
    existing systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them
    don't, the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.



    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based on
    the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    But the above doesn't define what an XXX Decider is.

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    Ok, but not what they can be asked to do.

    And, it seems, you don't actually understand what that means.


    This is the part that you are having great difficulty
    understanding.

    No, you confuse ability with requirements.

    There is nothing wrong with requirements that turn out to not be
    meetable, as long as they are well defined.

    This is like you confuse Truth with Knowledge and your brain blows up
    when you need to confront their difference.


     Note, it talks NOTHING about what makes a given decider "correct" (a
    word you don't seem to understand)

    Yes, your H is a decider (if you fix it to always answer), but it
    isn't a HALT decider though, as its computed results do not match th
    Halting function, which IS a valid function to ask about per the
    definition of a Semantic Property.

    You are just showing your ignorance of the langague.

    I guess you think you can submit your Persan Cat into the Westminister
    Dog Show as that show is for trained animals.


    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, as
    every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense
    rule to the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.






    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 12:41:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 12:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 12:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 11:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    By objective measures, a Mensa IQ test I am
    in the top 3%. Where are you by these same
    objective measures? I would say that you are
    at least in the top 20%, maybe much higher.

    But it is well know that single test are not an accurate measure of >>>>> actual intelligence.


    In other words you know that your IQ is much lower?
    I know that you are much higher than the normal of
    100 IQ. No one below 100 is stupid. You are at least
    some degree of smart. Even 115 IQ is smart, smart
    enough to graduate college.

    Various test come out to over 150 (the top for that test) to 180-190.

    I know enough of the theory of the test to understand there general
    unreliability. Also, there are many types of "IQ" that a person will
    have different levels in.



    as you deceive yourself into thinking you "know" things, when
    they have no real basis. You have chosen to forgo actual logic
    for the fantasies of your own mind, and you have chosen to ignore >>>>>>> reality.


    It is all a matter of your lack of ability to
    pay complete attention. You have never been
    able to show the tiniest actual mistake in
    anything that I have ever said and prove that
    it is an actual mistake with correct reasoning.'

    No, I pay attention, but you don't.

    Your failure to answer the errors pointed out prove that you are
    not interested in truth, and/or are unable to learn.


    The only "errors" that anyone every pointed out
    were never ERRORS in the absolute sense. The
    were only "errors" within the assumption that
    the conventional view is infallible.

    No, you don't THINK they are error because they disagree with your
    preconcieved notions.

    THe fact you haven't (probably because you CAN'T) actually refute
    them shos that they are errors, that you are just chooing to ignore,
    because truth isn't a concern of yours.


    The best that you have every done is show that
    what I am saying does not conform to the
    convention view.

    But, your problem is that by the "conventional view" what you meam
    is the DEFINED view for the problem you claim to be working in.

    You don't understand that changing it and staying in it is not an
    option.


    The conventional view has several key definitions.
    Some of these definitions contradict other definitions
    within this same system.


    So, what are the contradictions?

    Are you sure you are using definitions from the same field?

    You have shown a remarkable failure to understand the concept of
    context, and even a rejection of the concept of the term-of-art.


    That is the height of stupidity.


    I don't know how attention deficit disorder works.
    I have the opposite hyper focus super power.

    And you "hyper focus" on your delusions, and ignore the facts.


    Your "facts" are the mere dogma of the conventional
    view. Expressions of language that are impossibly false
    within a definition are derived by applying correct
    semantic entailment to this definition.

    No, they are the DEFINITION of the system.


    Yes they are. Yet they contradict other definitions
    of this same system and that is their error. You
    are smart and capable of understanding me. You did
    just bring up a crucially important point.

    Where?

    Since you have stated you never actually studied the system, it would
    be hard for you to actually KNOW the real definitions.


    It seems you lack the understanding of what is actually true in a
    system.


    It never has been this. It probably did seem
    like this before I could translate my mere
    intuitions into first principles derived from
    standard definitions.

    Sure it has.

    You have ALWAYS been confusing the concept of Truth with the idea of
    Knowledge, which is why the unprovable is so bothersome to you, as it
    points out the distiction that you try to refuse to beleive.

    Note, the concepts of Unprovable, Unknowable, Undecidable,
    Uncomputable are all tightly tied together, coming in a sense from
    the same source. But that this destroyes you bad mental model, you
    try to (unsucessfully) rebel from these.

    Your problem is you



    The is what I have just achieved in the last two weeks.

    You have not even shows that you know what
    "semantic entailment" is. If you do not
    even know what it is then you cannot know
    the details of how it works.

    No, your problem is I don't agree to your lies.


    My statement was not asking for mere rhetoric.
    It asked for you to show that you understand what
    "semantic entailment" is and how it works.

    Since you don't understand what semantics mean, because you think you
    can change the meaning of words, it will be impossible for you to
    understand the meaning of that phrase.


    When is answered by mere rhetoric this indicates
    that you have no clue what "semantic entailment"
    is and how it works.

    Part of the problem with that term, is it generally is used in the
    context of natural languages, which are actually out of scope of the
    formal logic systems you want to be talking about.

    It deals with a statement being required to be true as a result of
    the basic meaning of the words, but that then requires that the
    meaning of the words be properly and consistantly defined.

    Formal systems bypass this problem, as their axioms DEFINE the basic
    truths of the systems, and their accepted operations the way you can
    manipulate them, and thus "semantics" boil done to the question of
    what can be the results of applying those operations in all possible
    configurations to those axioms. That BECOMES the meaning in the system.


    Something that almost no one has the capacity to understand
    is that semantics can be fully encoded directly within the
    syntax.

    But that requires you to accept that there ARE rules in the system,
    and definitions that need to be followed when talking about the
    system, which seems to need more IQ then you have.


    That I can see incoherence that you cannot see would
    seem to show an error on my part from your point of
    view.

    The fact you can't SHOW it, shows that it likely isn't there.

    Your problem is you have PROVEN that you don't understand the material,
    and thus any incoherence you think you see is almost certainly an error
    on your part.

    If you want to try to convince people you are right, you need to show
    actual proof of your claims, and root that proof in the actual
    definitions of the system, something you have shown you don't actually
    know.





    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand
    new system, and accept that your system says nothing about the
    existing systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them
    don't, the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.



    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based
    on the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    But the above doesn't define what an XXX Decider is.

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    Ok, but not what they can be asked to do.


    When-so-ever whatever they are asked to do is outside
    the scope of what they can do the requirement itself
    is incorrect.

    They can be asked to fly to the Moon in ASCII text
    encoded a SPACE delimited sequences of binary digits.
    "I hereby command you to fly to the Moon."

    When they are defined to have the capabilities of
    modern LLMs systems they could answer back:
    "You must be nuts!"

    And, it seems, you don't actually understand what that means.


    This is the part that you are having great difficulty
    understanding.

    No, you confuse ability with requirements.

    There is nothing wrong with requirements that turn out to not be
    meetable, as long as they are well defined.

    This is like you confuse Truth with Knowledge and your brain blows up
    when you need to confront their difference.


     Note, it talks NOTHING about what makes a given decider "correct" (a
    word you don't seem to understand)

    Yes, your H is a decider (if you fix it to always answer), but it
    isn't a HALT decider though, as its computed results do not match th
    Halting function, which IS a valid function to ask about per the
    definition of a Semantic Property.

    You are just showing your ignorance of the langague.

    I guess you think you can submit your Persan Cat into the
    Westminister Dog Show as that show is for trained animals.


    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system,
    as every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-sense >>>>> rule to the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.






    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 13:43:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 12:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 12:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 11:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 9:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 10:49 AM, olcott wrote:

    I would estimate (possibly incorrectly) The ADD
    could be circumvented in isolated cases by reading
    the same words over-and-over many times.

    My first principles are not yet completely perfected.


    But, until you decide that you are going to be makeing a brand >>>>>>>> new system, and accept that your system says nothing about the >>>>>>>> existing systems, you don't get to make a "first principle"


    First principles derived from standard definitions
    do not define a new system. They do point out errors
    of incoherence in the existing system. The only thing
    that seems to be incorrect in the theory of computation
    is the notion of undecidability.

    But since yours don't, or at least your interpretations of them
    don't, the are not valid.


    (1) Turing machine deciders: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    Here is the same thing more formally and less clearly.

    Definition: Turing-Machine Decider D

    A Turing-machine decider D is a Turing machine that computes
    a total function D : Σ* → {Accept, Reject}. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ*, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.



    For instance, Halting is an objective measure, and thus NOT based >>>>>> on the deciders own action.


    Not according to the above two definitions.

    But the above doesn't define what an XXX Decider is.

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    Ok, but not what they can be asked to do.


    When-so-ever whatever they are asked to do is outside
    the scope of what they can do the requirement itself
    is incorrect.


    And where do you get that from?

    Your own STUPIDITY.


    They can be asked to fly to the Moon in ASCII text
    encoded a SPACE delimited sequences of binary digits.
    "I hereby command you to fly to the Moon."

    Nope, as that is not a mapping.


    When they are defined to have the capabilities of
    modern LLMs systems they could answer back:
    "You must be nuts!"

    Maybe.

    All you are doing is proving that you still don't know what you are
    talking about.


    And, it seems, you don't actually understand what that means.


    This is the part that you are having great difficulty
    understanding.

    No, you confuse ability with requirements.

    There is nothing wrong with requirements that turn out to not be
    meetable, as long as they are well defined.

    This is like you confuse Truth with Knowledge and your brain blows up
    when you need to confront their difference.


     Note, it talks NOTHING about what makes a given decider
    "correct" (a word you don't seem to understand)

    Yes, your H is a decider (if you fix it to always answer), but it
    isn't a HALT decider though, as its computed results do not match th
    Halting function, which IS a valid function to ask about per the
    definition of a Semantic Property.

    You are just showing your ignorance of the langague.

    I guess you think you can submit your Persan Cat into the
    Westminister Dog Show as that show is for trained animals.


    You have not actually pointed out an "incoherence" in the system, >>>>>> as every claimed incoherence comes AFTER you have added a non-
    sense rule to the system.

    This is because you just don't know what yo are talking about.









    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 13:09:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/2025 12:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 12:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 12:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    Ok, but not what they can be asked to do.


    When-so-ever whatever they are asked to do is outside
    the scope of what they can do the requirement itself
    is incorrect.


    And where do you get that from?

    Your own STUPIDITY.


    *This defines the scope of computation*
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D: Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the input
    alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    *This is semantically entailed from this definition*

    Any requirement that requires more than the above
    definition can provide is a requirement that is outside
    of the scope of computation.

    When you have no idea what the term "semantically
    entailed" means or how it works you cannot understand.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@Richard@Damon-Family.org to comp.theory,sci.math,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Dec 24 14:27:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 12/24/25 2:09 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 12:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/24/2025 12:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/24/25 12:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*
    *It does define the scope of what deciders can do*

    Ok, but not what they can be asked to do.


    When-so-ever whatever they are asked to do is outside
    the scope of what they can do the requirement itself
    is incorrect.


    And where do you get that from?

    Your own STUPIDITY.


    *This defines the scope of computation*
    A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that
    computes a total function D: Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},
    where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the input
    alphabet. That is:

    1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗, D
    halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.

    *This is semantically entailed from this definition*

    Any requirement that requires more than the above
    definition can provide is a requirement that is outside
    of the scope of computation.

    Nope, as the above defines the ABILITY of a computation.

    It doesn't define to domain of allowable questions / scope of computation.


    When you have no idea what the term "semantically
    entailed" means or how it works you cannot understand.



    It seems you don't, in part because you don't understand the word you
    are using.

    Like what a "scope" is, which is DIFFERENT than a capability.

    Since the DEFINITON of what a computation is to do, is based on the
    concept of MAPPINGS, which are a total set of mapping from an input
    domain to the output answers, that is the "Scope" of computations.

    Nothing in that definitions presumes that the computation CAN do this,
    as a key part of the scope of the theory of Computation is figuing out
    which sorts of mappings can be done, and which sorts can not.

    So, trying to fiat define that things that can't be computed are out of
    scope is just an error.

    It also run afoul of the basic rule that scope needs to be pre-deciable,
    in that we need to be able to know if a problem is in scope, without
    needing to actually solve it.

    Your definition just requires all problems to begin solved.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2