• Re: Readings in (some of the) foundations of mathematics ---analytic/synthetic distinction

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.math.symbolic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Jun 23 09:52:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms.  That doesn't mean you're
    capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you.  You have no respect for or understanding of the >>>>> truth.  If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow causes >>>>> Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll have >>>>> some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not understand. >>>>>
    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly
    don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any
    proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.


    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    "Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative to truth-condition semantics." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/proof-theoretic-semantics/
    *Not one person has understood that one sentence yet*
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.math.symbolic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Jun 23 08:54:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 06/23/2026 07:52 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms. That doesn't mean you're
    capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you. You have no respect for or understanding of the >>>>>> truth. If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow
    causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll have >>>>>> some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly
    don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any
    proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational
    semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.


    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    "Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative to truth-condition semantics." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/proof-theoretic-semantics/
    *Not one person has understood that one sentence yet*



    "Understanding" is for suckers,
    "comprehending" is what analysts do.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.math.symbolic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Jun 23 09:06:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 06/23/2026 08:54 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 06/23/2026 07:52 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms. That doesn't mean you're
    capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you. You have no respect for or understanding of >>>>>>> the
    truth. If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow
    causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll >>>>>>> have
    some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly >>>>>>> don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any
    proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational >>> semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.


    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    "Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative to truth-condition
    semantics."
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/proof-theoretic-semantics/
    *Not one person has understood that one sentence yet*



    "Understanding" is for suckers,
    "comprehending" is what analysts do.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogical_logic


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.math.symbolic,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue Jun 23 11:56:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 6/23/2026 10:54 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 06/23/2026 07:52 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms.  That doesn't mean you're >>>>>>>>> capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you.  You have no respect for or understanding of >>>>>>> the
    truth.  If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow >>>>>>> causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll >>>>>>> have
    some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly >>>>>>> don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any
    proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational >>> semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.


    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    "Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative to truth-condition
    semantics."
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/proof-theoretic-semantics/
    *Not one person has understood that one sentence yet*



    "Understanding" is for suckers,
    "comprehending" is what analysts do.



    I am using them as equivalent.
    Do you comprehend that PTS drops TCS and uses
    PTS as a replacement foundation for math?
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.math.symbolic,comp.ai.philosophy on Wed Jun 24 13:06:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 23/06/2026 17:52, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms.  That doesn't mean you're
    capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you.  You have no respect for or understanding of the >>>>>> truth.  If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow
    causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll have >>>>>> some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly >>>>>> don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any
    proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational
    semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.

    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    It does not provide any useful alternative when no semantics is needed.
    It is not shown to offer anything useful with problems with theal world semantics, which are the most important ones.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.math on Wed Jun 24 16:31:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 6/24/2026 5:06 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 17:52, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms.  That doesn't mean you're >>>>>>>>> capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>>> fails.

    I don't believe you.  You have no respect for or understanding of >>>>>>> the
    truth.  If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow >>>>>>> causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll >>>>>>> have
    some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you certainly >>>>>>> don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any >>>>>>> proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness
    theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it
    can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and computational >>> semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.

    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    It does not provide any useful alternative when no semantics is needed.

    That G is true in the standard model of arithmetic
    cannot possibly exist when model theory is replaced
    with proof theoretic semantics.

    It is not shown to offer anything useful with problems with theal world semantics, which are the most important ones.

    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to sci.logic,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy,sci.math on Thu Jun 25 10:49:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 25/06/2026 00:31, olcott wrote:
    On 6/24/2026 5:06 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 23/06/2026 17:52, olcott wrote:
    On 6/23/2026 1:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 22/06/2026 17:44, olcott wrote:
    On 6/22/2026 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 21/06/2026 23:42, olcott wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 3:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    [ Followup-To: set ]

    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/21/2026 6:26 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    I just found the term:
    "grounding in a proof theoretic atomic base" yesterday.

    You can find any number of terms.  That doesn't mean you're >>>>>>>>>> capable of
    understanding them.


    The above is the key reason why under PTS Gödel 1931
    incompleteness
    fails.

    I don't believe you.  You have no respect for or understanding >>>>>>>> of the
    truth.  If you really want to persuade anybody that PTS somehow >>>>>>>> causes
    Gödel's theorem not to hold, then cite an academic expert who'll >>>>>>>> have
    some credibility.

    If they are mere gibberish words to you then you will not
    understand.

    You don't understand Proof-theoritic Semantics, and you
    certainly don't
    understand Gödel's Theorem, neither the theorem itself nor any >>>>>>>> proof of
    it.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's G is ungrounded
    in the atomic base of PA.

    It is a verified fact that Gödel's completeness and incompleteness >>>>>> theorems are inevitable consequences of Peano arithmetic.

    Within the foundation of Truth Conditional Semantics
    this is true. Within the foundation of strict Proof
    Theoretic Semantics this is false.

    The proof that there are unprovable sentences with unprovable
    negations does not refer to any semantics. That a sentence or
    its negation is true is a feature of many semantic systems and
    in particular of the arithemtic semantics of Peano arithmetic.

    When people want to know how a function could be computed or whether it >>>> can be computed at all they only care about arithmetic and
    computational
    semantics. Proof theoretic semnatics is irrelevant.

    Proof-theoretic semantics is an alternative foundation
    for mathematics replacing truth conditional semantics.

    It does not provide any useful alternative when no semantics is needed.

    That G is true in the standard model of arithmetic
    cannot possibly exist when model theory is replaced
    with proof theoretic semantics.

    That G is true in the standard model of arithmetic (and every other
    model where the negation of G is not true) does not involve proof
    theoretic semantics but the semantics of the standard model (or
    whatever model one wnats to consider).

    But the main result that neither G nor its negation is provable does
    not involve any semantics at all. The rest is just simple corollaries.

    It is not shown to offer anything useful with problems with theal world
    semantics, which are the most important ones.
    It still isn't.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2