From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 13 Dec 2025 11:55:35 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Everything else is just a lot of lies. They pretend it's not strongly
typed, but in the real world you will only encounter a lot of issue if
you believe that.

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

... there are a lot of libraries helping developers.

Other languages have done that before. Why do you think Python has been
able to leapfrog every prior language in this regard? Perl had a lot of libraries to its name (still does), and yet that no longer seems to be a
good enough reason to continue using Perl, simply because Python now does
it better.

It’s because Python has such a strong core language on which to build extensions. The libraries tend to make heavy use of this.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 02:05 this Sunday (GMT):

On 13 Dec 2025 11:55:35 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Everything else is just a lot of lies. They pretend it's not strongly
typed, but in the real world you will only encounter a lot of issue if
you believe that.

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

I thought it was because JS was too liberal with type-casting to make
things true, and the JS devs didn't want to break compatibility.

... there are a lot of libraries helping developers.

Other languages have done that before. Why do you think Python has been
able to leapfrog every prior language in this regard? Perl had a lot of libraries to its name (still does), and yet that no longer seems to be a good enough reason to continue using Perl, simply because Python now does
it better.

It’s because Python has such a strong core language on which to build extensions. The libraries tend to make heavy use of this.

It is quite nice, yeah.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 13:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 02:05 this Sunday (GMT):

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while
Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

I thought it was because JS was too liberal with type-casting to make
things true, and the JS devs didn't want to break compatibility.

Is there some other interpretation of “strongly typed”?
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 20:58:10 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 13:30:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 02:05 this Sunday (GMT):

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while >>> Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

I thought it was because JS was too liberal with type-casting to make
things true, and the JS devs didn't want to break compatibility.

Is there some other interpretation of “strongly typed”?

I haven't worked with them enough to know if type hints are useful or if they're like TypeScript's attempt to rein in JavaScript. It's like the
dunders that are like saying 'Please mugger, don't take my IPad' rather
than something that is enforced.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
writes:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 02:05 this Sunday (GMT):

On 13 Dec 2025 11:55:35 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Everything else is just a lot of lies. They pretend it's not
strongly typed, but in the real world you will only encounter a lot
of issue if you believe that.

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while
Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

I thought it was because JS was too liberal with type-casting to make
things true, and the JS devs didn't want to break compatibility.

“No implicit type conversion” is one of the definitions of strong
typing, at least back to the 1970s[1]. And JavaScript is certainly
weakly typed in that sense:

> 'a' + 1
'a1'
> 1/false
Infinity

What dividing by a boolean could possibly mean is a mystery, but
JavaScript will do it anyway.

Python fits this definition of strong typing up to a point:

>>> 'a' + 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<python-input-0>", line 1, in <module>
'a' + 1
~~~~^~~
TypeError: can only concatenate str (not "int") to str

However it only goes so far, for example many things will implicitly
convert to bool:

>>> not ''
True
>>> not {}
True

When you define your own classes, you can arrange for them to perform arithmetic with other types without explicit conversions too.

Another property suggested in [1] for ‘strong typing’ is that functions
can only be called with with arguments matching a declared type. In
Python, function arguments do not have declared types[2] and does not
even infer them; anything goes. You will only hit an exception if you
try to use the arguments in the wrong way.

>>> def f(a,b):
... return a + b
...
>>> f("a", "a")
'aa'
>>> f(0,0)
0
>>> f("a", 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<python-input-4>", line 1, in <module>
f("a", 0)
~^^^^^^^^
File "<python-input-0>", line 2, in f
return a + b
~~^~~
TypeError: can only concatenate str (not "int") to str

[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/942572.807045

[2] you can put in type annotations but the language implementation
ignores them - you need to run a separate static checker.

I would say that although Python does have some aspects of strong
typing, it is mostly weakly typed.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/20/25 05:12, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
writes:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 02:05 this Sunday (GMT):

On 13 Dec 2025 11:55:35 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Everything else is just a lot of lies. They pretend it's not
strongly typed, but in the real world you will only encounter a lot
of issue if you believe that.

Think about why both JavaScript and PHP need a “===” operator, while >>> Python does not.

It’s because Python is strongly typed.

I thought it was because JS was too liberal with type-casting to make
things true, and the JS devs didn't want to break compatibility.

“No implicit type conversion” is one of the definitions of strong
typing, at least back to the 1970s[1]. And JavaScript is certainly
weakly typed in that sense:

> 'a' + 1
'a1'
> 1/false
Infinity

What dividing by a boolean could possibly mean is a mystery, but
JavaScript will do it anyway.

Python fits this definition of strong typing up to a point:

Well, I kind of liked PICK system ... everything was
equal, always represented as a string. Numbers, chars,
whatever - instantly/easily converted between each other.
NO 'types'.

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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 10:12:49 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Another property suggested in [1] for ‘strong typing’ is that
functions can only be called with with arguments matching a declared
type. In Python, function arguments do not have declared types[2]
and does not even infer them; anything goes. You will only hit an
exception if you try to use the arguments in the wrong way.

Python calls this “duck typing”. The called code expects the passed
objects to have certain members; so long as they have those, they can
be of any type. E.g. a function might be written to write to an output
file object, but anything passed that has a suitable “.write()” method
on it will work.

In other words, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then
it is acceptable in place of a duck.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 05:25:25 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Well, I kind of liked PICK system ... everything was equal, always
represented as a string. Numbers, chars, whatever - instantly/easily
converted between each other.
NO 'types'.

iirc Perl had 5 copies of a scalar just in case you wanted a string or character instead of an integer or float.


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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 10:12:49 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

I would say that although Python does have some aspects of strong
typing, it is mostly weakly typed.

Type hints sort of address that. Like TypeScript there is a temptation to
say 'foo: Any' to preserve duck typing.
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