From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
what happens, it breaks everything and I have to manage the
indentations. I can't just comment/uncomment a block of code as I do
with other programming languages.

To no-op a block of code

...
... block of code ...
...

turn it into

if False :
...
... block of code ...
...
#end if

- It's sold as an easy programming language. Which is true for
discovering it. And once I'm using it in the real life, I discover the
hard reality. A lot of things that should just work don't because it's
an exception.

Example(s)?

- The version management is awful. There are a lot of ways to be able to
use different packages than the ones used by the system.

Maybe I’m unusual, but I make little use of Python packages that are not available with the distro. So distro package version management is good
enough for me.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 14/12/2025 23:29, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

And maybe stop using edlin etc. and invest in a modern editor that knows
the language and so helps you by making life easier.


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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

On 14/12/2025 23:29, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

And maybe stop using edlin etc. and invest in a modern editor that knows
the language and so helps you by making life easier.

"The ed utility is the standard text editor."

SCNR,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:44:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[Python is] the modern BASIC. Great for hacking stuff up, bur bare
metal it aint.

Unlike BASIC, Python’s facilities for doing low-level stuff are a bit
more advanced than PEEK and POKE. ;)
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/15/25 07:57, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14/12/2025 23:29, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

And maybe stop using edlin etc. and invest in a modern editor that knows
the language and so helps you by making life easier.

Not much fun in THAT !!! :-)

Me, I use 'nano' as much as possible.

Larger, complex, programs ... sometimes I have
to use IDLE or Geany because they can make
guide-lines showing indentation levels. Once
that's fixed, back to 'nano' :-)

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

Any decent programming editor will have a facility for selecting a group
of lines and adding/removing the appropriate commenting characters.

(If your editor doesn't have that, then by definition it's not decent. :-)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 17:51:26 +1300, Greg Ewing wrote:

Any decent programming editor will have a facility for selecting a group
of lines and adding/removing the appropriate commenting characters.

(If your editor doesn't have that, then by definition it's not det.
:-)

:.,'as/^/#/

assuming you've marked a.

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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 21:45:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Yeah, well. I've been burned more than once by someone who added

/* stupid comment */

someplace west of the 80th column in the code.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/16/25 20:54, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 21:45:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Yeah, well. I've been burned more than once by someone who added

/* stupid comment */

someplace west of the 80th column in the code.

Well ...... reflex ........ :-)

Now most of my code lines have a "# WhatThisIs"
comment at the end. I like to micro-document so
I can remember what my own fuckin' code does
a few years down the line. AMAZING how quickly
the 'why' vanishes from the mind :-)

Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't
matter which lang - is 'comments'.

ANYway ... you CAN easily do block commenting
in Python ... P3 anyway, not so sure about P2
because I never used it.

IF there's a P4 ... they really SHOULD accept "/*"
as a start-comment.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang - is
'comments'.

I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There are a couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that
have somebody's comments.

I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a couple of nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next project the programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values
here and there and it will work.' The next time around it got some more configuration values to do something else. I have a Swiss Army knife I
found; it's in the junk drawer.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Then """ and """ are your better friends.
--
Dan Espen
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 16:17:30 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Then """ and """ are your better friends.

What if you have both present?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
what happens, it breaks everything and I have to manage the
indentations. I can't just comment/uncomment a block of code as I do >>>> with other programming languages.

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Then """ and """ are your better friends.

Why bother? If you want to comment out a block, you can do just that,
much the same as in any other language.

$ cat t.py
def f(x):
# while x < 10:
# print(x)
# x += 1
print("done")

f(3)
$ python3 t.py
done

If you prefer the comment markers to match the indentation of the whole
block, that works too:

$ cat t.py
def f(x):
# while x < 10:
# print(x)
# x += 1
print("done")

f(3)
$ python3 t.py
done

Or perhaps you prefer the comment markets to follow the lines they’re commenting out:

$ cat t.py
def f(x):
# while x < 10:
# print(x)
# x += 1
print("done")

f(3)
$ python3 t.py
done
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 22:13:21 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

If you prefer the comment markers to match the indentation of the whole block, that works too:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to make
them go away.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang - is
'comments'.

I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There are a couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that
have somebody's comments.

I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a couple of nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next project the programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values
here and there and it will work.' The next time around it got some more configuration values to do something else. I have a Swiss Army knife I found; it's in the junk drawer.

Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
and implications of almost every step.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/17/25 17:11, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 16:17:30 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see

''' and ''' are your friend

Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...

Then """ and """ are your better friends.

What if you have both present?

Both ''' and """ work ... but you need to close
the comment block with the same thing.

ANYway, block-comments ARE (at least now) to be
had in Python.

Never used P1 or P2 worth anything, maybe they
didn't have block comments ???

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:

Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
and implications of almost every step.

That's fine as long as it's done with adequate discipline

i += 2; /* add one more bloofus to i */
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/17/25 22:28, John Levine wrote:

According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:

Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
and implications of almost every step.

That's fine as long as it's done with adequate discipline

i += 2; /* add one more bloofus to i */

Gotta add a couple of words explaining
the *context* - WHY you are incrementing
the var by 2, not one or three. Did a
recent little app where you needed to inc
by two ... and the comment explained why.

Oh, I usually write "i=i+2". It's a bit more
clear and becomes the same code anyway. +=
is more a 'C' thing.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 03:28:34 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:

According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:

Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my old programs
better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting anything BUT
'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning and implications of
almost every step.

That's fine as long as it's done with adequate discipline

i += 2; /* add one more bloofus to i */

/** obtain the list of units for the passed in object */
list_ret_val = (list_obj_ret *)ListObj(&obj_s, OTUnit);

That's an actual example of a comment that doesn't add anything to the discussion. If you don't know what ListObj() does, the structure of the
linked list it returns, or that you have to cast the data field of the
linked list to a UnitStruct, that comment isn't going to help.

If you do know it's readily apparent you're passing in a Cfs object to get
the list of units attached to it. Doing a quick and dirty search there are 1752 calls to ListObj in the codebase very few of which are commented.

If you're doing something quirky, comment it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:02:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Oh, I usually write "i=i+2". It's a bit more clear and becomes the
same code anyway. += is more a 'C' thing.

And Python, C#, JavaScript, C++, ...

https://peps.python.org/pep-0008/

"assignment (+=, -= etc.), comparisons (==, <, >, !=, <=, >=, in, not in,
is, is not), Booleans (and, or, not)."


There's some benighted language that does not have += etc. Maybe R. I
looked at that briefly before deciding anything I could do in R I could do
in Python without learning new weirdness.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to make >them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Greetings
Marc
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 22:18:39 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Both ''' and """ work ... but you need to close the comment block
with the same thing.

ANYway, block-comments ARE (at least now) to be had in Python.

Never used P1 or P2 worth anything, maybe they didn't have block
comments ???

https://peps.python.org/pep-0257/

Doc strings are a little strange. 'String' is the key word.

python3
Python 3.13.7 (main, Nov 24 2025, 20:51:28) [GCC 15.2.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

# this is a real comment
"""this a a multiline

... string
... """
'this a a multiline\n string\n'

foo = """ more multiline

... stuff
... """

print(foo)

more multiline
stuff
There are just strings that aren't assigned.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to
make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle
memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how
much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a
cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but I
never do.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 01:54, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:02:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Oh, I usually write "i=i+2". It's a bit more clear and becomes the
same code anyway. += is more a 'C' thing.

And Python, C#, JavaScript, C++, ...

Well, I know it *works* ... I just choose not
to do it in Python. Everyone has their 'style'.

https://peps.python.org/pep-0008/

"assignment (+=, -= etc.), comparisons (==, <, >, !=, <=, >=, in, not in,
is, is not), Booleans (and, or, not)."

But isn't && and || more better ? If the
meaning is more obscure then it MUST be better ! :-)

There's some benighted language that does not have += etc. Maybe R. I
looked at that briefly before deciding anything I could do in R I could do
in Python without learning new weirdness.

'R' ??? You must have some very special needs !

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 18/12/2025 07:03, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to make
them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Greetings
Marc

#define Bollocks

#ifdef BOLLOCKS
..
...
....
..
.
#endif
--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

#define Bollocks

#ifdef BOLLOCKS
..
...
....
..
.
#endif

Has the disadvantage of being language specific.

Greetings
Marc
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 18/12/2025 10:19, Marc Haber wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

#define Bollocks

#ifdef BOLLOCKS
..
...
....
..
.
#endif

Has the disadvantage of being language specific.

Almost everything is language specific.
Its not as if you are writing for three different languages with the
same code.

Greetings
Marc

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/17/25 20:10, c186282 wrote:

On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:

    Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang - is >>>     'comments'.

I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There
are a
couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that
have somebody's comments.

I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a
couple of
nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next project
the
programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values
here and there and it will work.'  The next time around it got some more
configuration values to do something else.  I have a Swiss Army knife I
found; it's in the junk drawer.

  Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
  old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
  anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
  and implications of almost every step.

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old code,
I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a program and
said "I wish it had fewer comments."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to
make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle
memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how >much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a
cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get two >vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but I
never do.

:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]

also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column wide
panes.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

Regrettably, I’ve encountered plenty of comments that don’t actually reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that’s great, you
have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there’s
a problem at all.

However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
(although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

I’ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn’t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 18:00:45 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

I’ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn’t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.

Many of the comments were by recent graduates/interns who had received
'Thou Shalt Comment' as the 11th commandment. Ironically when a TA at the university who was known to demand extensive commenting was hired we found
he never commented anything, preferred cryptic variable names not to
exceed three characters, and did perverted things with the macro processor
so function names were patched together on the fly rather than existing in
the code. Then there was the fondness for the big hairy bison to create private little languages.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to >>>>make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle >>memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how >>much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a >>cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get
two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but
I never do.

:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]

also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column wide panes.

I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 04:25:35 -0500, c186282 wrote:

But isn't && and || more better ? If the
meaning is more obscure then it MUST be better !

Perfectly obvious. BTW any language that can't do bit operations should be drowned at birth.

'R' ??? You must have some very special needs !

https://www.anaconda.com/blog/python-vs-r-data-science-ai-workflows

The article is biased but R at one time was more popular for machine
learning. Python caught up rapidly. One of the problems with R is a sort
of quirky syntax compared to most languages. With Python you can use TensorFlow and even if you don't know much about ML it looks like Python.

Both are interpreted so aren't the speediest languages. R originally had
an edge but as Python became more popular for ML packages like numpy were optimized.

Note: I draw a distinction between ML and LLMs. All the hype is for LLMs
and I'm not sure the balloon won't burst. ML is the poor relation but I
think it has more real value to offer in many domains.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 11:00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

Regrettably, I’ve encountered plenty of comments that don’t actually reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that’s great, you
have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there’s
a problem at all.

However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
(although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

I’ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn’t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.

Since documentation never gets updated, if it's even created at all,
comments are the best you can get most of the time.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 12:52:33 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

Since documentation never gets updated, if it's even created at all,
comments are the best you can get most of the time.

We had a tech writer who was notorious for copying the programmer's fix
notes and calling it good. It was helpful in a way since we learned to
write better fix notes. I have worked with tech writers who could
translate GeekSpeak into English but the good ones are scarce.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 09:40, Peter Flass wrote:

On 12/17/25 20:10, c186282 wrote:

On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:

    Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang >>>> - is
    'comments'.

I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There
are a
couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that >>> have somebody's comments.

I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a
couple of
nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next
project the
programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values >>> here and there and it will work.'  The next time around it got some more >>> configuration values to do something else.  I have a Swiss Army knife I >>> found; it's in the junk drawer.

   Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
   old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
   anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
   and implications of almost every step.

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old code,
I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

Ah, you live in the Real World :-)

Maybe SOME here have eidetic memory and have
crystal perfect comprehension about how their
huge 1975 COBOL opus worked ...

A few of us need enough detailed comments to
work us through the steps and reasoning again ...

Hmm ... have one Python function floating around
where the actual code is about 6 lines - but
there's about 30 comment lines above it explaining
how/why it works AND little helper comments after
every line :-)

It was a really crushed-down way of splicing one
directory tree into another at the exact right
place - string+math trix - came to me while riding
a motorcycle down an interstate highway. Good for
backup stuff.

BUT, needed to EXPLAIN it to myself, WHY it worked
before I forgot, and there's ONE little gotcha that
needed some elaboration. Did translate it into Pascal
and 'C', but it's bigger in 'C' because of the ruder
string-handling.

I think the Pascal version had a couple extra
lines to get around the gotcha. Gotta look up
some of my old stuff again .....

Anyway, FAR easier to UNDER-comment than OVER-comment.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 13:00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

Regrettably, I’ve encountered plenty of comments that don’t actually reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that’s great, you
have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there’s
a problem at all.

This is why you don't just blindly cut-n-paste "helpful
code" you find on the net :-)

Often were several versions of it ... but nobody bothered
to update the comments.

However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
(although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

I’ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn’t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.

If the actual code WRITER doesn't understand his/her/its
own code ... that's worrisome.

As I mentioned to someone else, I've got a Python function
around somewhere with about SIX lines of actual code and
over THIRTY lines of comment above it explaining why the
tricky little devil works.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 13:38, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to >>>>> make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle
memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how >>> much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a >>> cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get
two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but
I never do.

:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]

also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column wide
panes.

I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'

NANO !!! :-)

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/18/25 14:22, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 04:25:35 -0500, c186282 wrote:

But isn't && and || more better ? If the
meaning is more obscure then it MUST be better !

Perfectly obvious. BTW any language that can't do bit operations should be drowned at birth.

Oops, you missed my point entirely :-)

'R' ??? You must have some very special needs !

https://www.anaconda.com/blog/python-vs-r-data-science-ai-workflows

The article is biased but R at one time was more popular for machine learning. Python caught up rapidly. One of the problems with R is a sort
of quirky syntax compared to most languages. With Python you can use TensorFlow and even if you don't know much about ML it looks like Python.

*SORT OF* QUIRKY ??? :-)

I've seen this GREAT language called "BrainFuck" you
may be interested in :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
https://gist.github.com/roachhd/dce54bec8ba55fb17d3a
https://brainfuck.org/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pbfc/

Hey, it's got a ".org" !!!

Both are interpreted so aren't the speediest languages. R originally had
an edge but as Python became more popular for ML packages like numpy were optimized.

Note: I draw a distinction between ML and LLMs. All the hype is for LLMs
and I'm not sure the balloon won't burst. ML is the poor relation but I
think it has more real value to offer in many domains.

MOST of those balloons WILL burst ... don't expect
more than one or two victors when everything shakes
out. Umpteen TRILLIONS wasted by wannabes, a whole
huge market segment will implode.

And the needed hardware for good compact neural networks
is ALMOST there now ... completely different approach
and most likely to fit fairly decent AI into mobile bots.

Yep, 'terminators' - expect those to be the FIRST big
application ... human nature .......

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of whether Meta-h or
Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two panes stacked
vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'

From my i3 config file:

bindsym Mod4+v split toggle

Since I do have window borders, the split direction will be visible (a
light shade of blue border versus a subdued one. I am quite happy with
it. You might give it a try.

Best regards

Axel
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 00:56:11 -0500, c186282 wrote:

On 12/18/25 13:38, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#//
to make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I
mark the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of
muscle memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to
me is how much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one
way to skin a cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new
foo.txt to get two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side
by side panes but I never do.

:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]

also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column
wide panes.

I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'

NANO !!! :-)

Whatever. I've used it in a pinch but it's definitely my favorite.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/19/25 03:18, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 00:56:11 -0500, c186282 wrote:

On 12/18/25 13:38, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// >>>>>>> to make them go away.

Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.

Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them? >>>>>

Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I
mark the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of
muscle memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to >>>>> me is how much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one >>>>> way to skin a cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new >>>>> foo.txt to get two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side >>>>> by side panes but I never do.

:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]

also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column
wide panes.

I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'

NANO !!! :-)

Whatever. I've used it in a pinch but it's definitely my favorite.

Hey, super-simple and to the point ... what's
not to love ? :-)

Anyway, I *do* use it quite a lot, even on short-ish
programs.

The ed in Midnight Commander is a bit better, AND you
can use it easily over SSH.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 03:30:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:

The ed in Midnight Commander is a bit better, AND you can use it
easily over SSH.

Back in the days of DJGPP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJGPP

I ported MC back to Windows, from whence it came as a test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander

The biggest problems were any network features. I should install it on one
of the machines for old times sake.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 2025-12-16 00:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:44:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[Python is] the modern BASIC. Great for hacking stuff up, bur bare
metal it aint.

Unlike BASIC, Python’s facilities for doing low-level stuff are a bit
more advanced than PEEK and POKE. ;)

I don't remember how we did id with the Microsoft basic compiler in the
90's. QC40? I think we linked an external obj or lib file that did the
actual job, provided by the manufacturer of the data acquisition card we
used.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 12/19/25 14:38, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 03:30:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:

The ed in Midnight Commander is a bit better, AND you can use it
easily over SSH.

Back in the days of DJGPP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJGPP

I ported MC back to Windows, from whence it came as a test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander

The biggest problems were any network features. I should install it on one
of the machines for old times sake.

I load MC on EVERYTHING by default - and it COMES IN
USEFUL more than enough to be worth it.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On 2025-12-18 15:40, Peter Flass wrote:

On 12/17/25 20:10, c186282 wrote:

On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which
lang - is 'comments'.

I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free.
There are a couple of .c files with comments that I reused from
another project that have somebody's comments.

I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code
that I could tweak so the final executable did one thing well.
We had a couple of nightmares that originally did one thing well
but for the next project the programmer said 'That's close to
what I need. A few configuration values here and there and it
will work.' The next time around it got some more configuration
values to do something else. I have a Swiss Army knife I found;
it's in the junk drawer.>>

   Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
   old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
   anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
   and implications of almost every step.

I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old code,
I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

+1
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.python

On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 04:01:01 -0500, c186282 wrote:

I load MC on EVERYTHING by default - and it COMES IN USEFUL more than
enough to be worth it.

I'll take your word for it. I haven't used in a couple of decades and only vaguely remember how it works. It's safe to say I'm not feeling a big hole
in my life.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2