On 2025-12-15 10:41 p.m., vallor wrote:
At Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:16:03 -0600, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
bonkmaykr wrote:
chrisv wrote:
c186282 wrote:
Maybe an AI can eventually clean up both and
make a best-of system that's not clunky ???
It wouldn't hurt to ask. "Hey ChatGPT, clean up X11 and Wayland
to make a best-of system that's not clunky."
Piece of cake! 8)
I am not sure what your programming experience is, but asking an
AI to write any software that is non-trivial, let alone assist
with it, is a waste of time.
I was joking, of course.
"AI" (which isn't really "AI", it's just an LLM) can help
with some of the "grunt work" of programming.
My experiment with this was to write a newsreader with
the help of ChatGPT, in Tk/perl. It works.
Is it better than Pan?
At Tue, 16 Dec 2025 09:57:02 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-12-15 10:41 p.m., vallor wrote:
At Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:16:03 -0600, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
bonkmaykr wrote:
chrisv wrote:
c186282 wrote:
Maybe an AI can eventually clean up both and
make a best-of system that's not clunky ???
It wouldn't hurt to ask. "Hey ChatGPT, clean up X11 and Wayland
to make a best-of system that's not clunky."
Piece of cake! 8)
I am not sure what your programming experience is, but asking an
AI to write any software that is non-trivial, let alone assist
with it, is a waste of time.
I was joking, of course.
"AI" (which isn't really "AI", it's just an LLM) can help
with some of the "grunt work" of programming.
My experiment with this was to write a newsreader with
the help of ChatGPT, in Tk/perl. It works.
Is it better than Pan?
Right now, Pan is better, I'd say.
But newscamel has one feature that I don't think many newsreaders have,
which is recording "read" (red) articles by Message-ID.
That way, no matter which news server you switch to,
it will accurately indicate read articles.
I'm thinking maybe I should go back to Pan, and add that feature.
Issue there is I'm not as strong with C++ as I am with C or perl.
It's just too bad for developers that AI designed that Usenet reader
faster (and probably better) than they ever could have. Lord knows
there's a lack of decent newsreaders other than Thunderbird/Betterbird
in Linux.
At Tue, 16 Dec 2025 09:57:02 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-12-15 10:41 p.m., vallor wrote:
At Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:16:03 -0600, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
My experiment with this was to write a newsreader with
the help of ChatGPT, in Tk/perl. It works.
Is it better than Pan?
Right now, Pan is better, I'd say.
But newscamel has one feature that I don't think many newsreaders have,
which is recording "read" (red) articles by Message-ID.
That way, no matter which news server you switch to,
it will accurately indicate read articles.
I'm thinking maybe I should go back to Pan, and add that feature.
Issue there is I'm not as strong with C++ as I am with C or perl.
On 2025-12-17 05:42, vallor wrote:
At Tue, 16 Dec 2025 09:57:02 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
wrote:
On 2025-12-15 10:41 p.m., vallor wrote:
At Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:16:03 -0600, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
My experiment with this was to write a newsreader with
the help of ChatGPT, in Tk/perl. It works.
Is it better than Pan?
Right now, Pan is better, I'd say.
But newscamel has one feature that I don't think many newsreaders
have, which is recording "read" (red) articles by Message-ID.
That way, no matter which news server you switch to,
it will accurately indicate read articles.
I'm thinking maybe I should go back to Pan, and add that feature.
Issue there is I'm not as strong with C++ as I am with C or perl.
There is a way in Linux to do that with any reader.
I use "leafnode", an nntp proxy server. It is it who connects to the
upstream news servers, one or several. But your client only connects
to the local leafnode.
On 2025-12-15 6:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-12-12, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
Le 06-12-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
Therein lies the problem. Anything that reduces choice
should be purged from FOSS.
As you want to reduce choice by refusing wayland, systemd and every
existing distro you should be purged from FOSS. Right?
I, personally, don't want to force people to quit using wayland. I just
don't want to be forced to use something that's still (after 16 or 17 years) >> is still not really ready.
The funny part is that Wayland is as old now as X11 was when they first started talking about replacing the latter. The difference is that at
the time, X11 was further along than Wayland currently is.
Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained.
Dream on it. It's good for your mental health when you have nothing else >>> left.
X11 works well for me.
It works well for most people. Clearly, it has some bugs that need to be fixed but they are actively preventing them from being fixed.
< snip >
On 2025-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-12-15 6:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-12-12, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
Le 06-12-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
Therein lies the problem. Anything that reduces choice
should be purged from FOSS.
As you want to reduce choice by refusing wayland, systemd and every
existing distro you should be purged from FOSS. Right?
I, personally, don't want to force people to quit using wayland. I just
don't want to be forced to use something that's still (after 16 or 17 years)
is still not really ready.
The funny part is that Wayland is as old now as X11 was when they first
started talking about replacing the latter. The difference is that at
the time, X11 was further along than Wayland currently is.
That's my impression as well. It doesn't seem very "unified" either. Last I looked into it there seemed to be several competing "compositors" that
didn't really work well with each other (may not be the right word).
Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained.
Dream on it. It's good for your mental health when you have nothing else >>>> left.
X11 works well for me.
It works well for most people. Clearly, it has some bugs that need to be
fixed but they are actively preventing them from being fixed.
< snip >
It makes you wonder if it wouldn't have been a better decision to improve
the existing "wheel" instead of trying to invent a whole new "wheel
concept."
Whatever. I hope I'll be able to stick to X11 for several more years.
At Thu, 18 Dec 2025 14:49:30 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-12-17 05:42, vallor wrote:
At Tue, 16 Dec 2025 09:57:02 -0500, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
wrote:
On 2025-12-15 10:41 p.m., vallor wrote:
At Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:16:03 -0600, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
My experiment with this was to write a newsreader with
the help of ChatGPT, in Tk/perl. It works.
Is it better than Pan?
Right now, Pan is better, I'd say.
But newscamel has one feature that I don't think many newsreaders
have, which is recording "read" (red) articles by Message-ID.
That way, no matter which news server you switch to,
it will accurately indicate read articles.
I'm thinking maybe I should go back to Pan, and add that feature.
Issue there is I'm not as strong with C++ as I am with C or perl.
There is a way in Linux to do that with any reader.
I use "leafnode", an nntp proxy server. It is it who connects to the
upstream news servers, one or several. But your client only connects
to the local leafnode.
That works -- except with the default configuration, you
can't take part in "banter" threads, where replies are a few
minutes apart.
But...hmm. There shouldn't be any reason why the cronjob
can't fire off (say) every 5 minutes to top off fresh news...though,
that might be wasteful of resources when you're not reading.
(I seem to remember that leafnode has a killfile function -- or
does it?)
In any event, once I have the bugs ironed out of the newsgroup
tree browser, I'll put this on my github for anyone who wants
a perl-based newsreader. (Development stagnated for a few weeks.)
On 2025-12-19 2:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-12-15 6:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-12-12, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
Le 06-12-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :
Therein lies the problem. Anything that reduces choice
should be purged from FOSS.
As you want to reduce choice by refusing wayland, systemd and every
existing distro you should be purged from FOSS. Right?
I, personally, don't want to force people to quit using wayland. I just >>>> don't want to be forced to use something that's still (after 16 or 17 years)
is still not really ready.
The funny part is that Wayland is as old now as X11 was when they first
started talking about replacing the latter. The difference is that at
the time, X11 was further along than Wayland currently is.
That's my impression as well. It doesn't seem very "unified" either. Last I >> looked into it there seemed to be several competing "compositors" that
didn't really work well with each other (may not be the right word).
This is what constantly happens in the Linux world. Many frame it as
choice but it's just needless chaos. Why does Snap exist if Flatpak does
and vice versa? Why do we need to have a few dozen types of package
managers that do the same thing? Why do we need to have so many init systems? Why not just pool resources into one and improve it as
necessary in a unified way? Have whatever kind of vote you wish but why fragment everything when your pool of available talent is already
minimal in comparison to the big guys? I imagine that this is what
Europe looked like against the threat of the Roman Empire or against the threat of the muhammedans. Rather than work together, we had a multitude
of little kingdoms who all thought "I'm not the target so I don't care." Look at what the Germanics were able to accomplish once they decided to unite. Look at what the Christians managed to accomplish once they
decided to unite. Why do we need so many little kingdoms? That's not
choice, that's idiocy.
Fortunately, X11 is still being maintained.
Dream on it. It's good for your mental health when you have nothing else >>>>> left.
X11 works well for me.
It works well for most people. Clearly, it has some bugs that need to be >>> fixed but they are actively preventing them from being fixed.
< snip >
It makes you wonder if it wouldn't have been a better decision to improve
the existing "wheel" instead of trying to invent a whole new "wheel
concept."
Whatever. I hope I'll be able to stick to X11 for several more years.
They're actively looking to destroy it, so you soon won't have a choice anymore.
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