On 5/4/2026 9:14 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-04 17:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-
far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
In what way will they be "easier to install and use" on Linux?
1. Pandoc
'Pandoc is available as a pkg installation package that you can
download from the official GitHub site. Double-click it and follow the
simple instructions.
Or, if you have Homebrew installed, you can add Pandoc with the command:'
Seems about the same or easier on a macOS.
2 Taskwarrior
'To install taskwarrior, you have to have Homebrew installed and then
add the app with:
brew install taskwarrior-tui'
So if you've installed Homebrew (which I have and which itself is
available as a .pkg installer), it's precisely the same on Linux and
MacOS.
3. Ollama
'When you install Ollama on MacOS, you can either install the GUI app
and use the command line, or you can simply install the command-line
tool only using Homebrew, like so:'
So again, as easy as Linux.
4. ag
'The ag command allows you to search for strings within files. Even
better, ag searches multiple files for the same string. Say you have a
bunch of text files in your Documents directory and you need to know
which of them contain ZDNET. The ag command will not only tell you
which files contain the string, but it'll do it very quickly.'
Ummmm... ...macOS already HAS this ability.
So Linux loses.
'5. yt-dlp
'Do you ever need to download videos from YouTube? If so...'
'Yt-dlp can be installed (along with the required ffmpeg) with
Homebrew, like so:
brew install yt-dlp ffmpeg'
So once again, after installing homebrew (which is as easy or perhaps
even easier on macOS)...
...it's precisely as easy.
This is why you're an odd character, you take this competition so
seriously, Lawrence is obsessed with promoting open-source and Linux
over Apple and MS, and you take the bait, trying to make sure everyone reading Usenet OS-advocacy groups, in 2026, knows that Apple's pretty
damn great, too! Like wow, get over it. If you love your Macs, great, good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
On 2026-05-04 8:54 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
I'll just bet that these applications are all free too, whereas a Mac
user is usually pushed toward buying something to do the same thing
inside of a GUI. There is nothing with either approach, but if you can
save money by doing something inside a terminal, you might as well do so.
On May 5, 2026 at 5:55:28 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote <69f9e8c0$1$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
On 2026-05-04 8:54 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
I'll just bet that these applications are all free too, whereas a Mac
user is usually pushed toward buying something to do the same thing
inside of a GUI. There is nothing with either approach, but if you can
save money by doing something inside a terminal, you might as well do so.
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with a world class GUI. It is what I wanted for many years before macOS ever existed.
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
On 2026-05-04 17:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
4. ag
'The ag command allows you to search for strings within files. Even
better, ag searches multiple files for the same string. Say you have a
bunch of text files in your Documents directory and you need to know
which of them contain ZDNET. The ag command will not only tell you which files contain the string, but it'll do it very quickly.'
Ummmm... ...macOS already HAS this ability.
So Linux loses.
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
On 05/05/2026 03:24, Joel W. Crump wrote:
[...]
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
On 2026-05-05 11:13 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 03:24, Joel W. Crump wrote:
[...]
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
They will give the lowest amount of storage and RAM they can manage
without discouraging sales. 512GB for storage and 16GB is probably the lowest they can go today. My 2TB on the 2021 unit suddenly looks huge.
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
On 05/05/2026 03:14, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-04 17:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
[...]
4. ag
'The ag command allows you to search for strings within files. Even
better, ag searches multiple files for the same string. Say you have a
bunch of text files in your Documents directory and you need to know
which of them contain ZDNET. The ag command will not only tell you
which files contain the string, but it'll do it very quickly.'
Ummmm... ...macOS already HAS this ability.
So Linux loses.
No. Linux has also find and grep, the GNU version, which has more
command line options compared to what macOS has. One can install, of
course, the GNU utilities on macOS and use those.
On 2026-05-04 8:54 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-
far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
I'll just bet that these applications are all free too, whereas a Mac
user is usually pushed toward buying something to do the same thing
inside of a GUI. There is nothing with either approach, but if you can
save money by doing something inside a terminal, you might as well do so.
On 5/5/2026 9:54 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 5:55:28 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<69f9e8c0$1$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
On 2026-05-04 8:54 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-
are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
I'll just bet that these applications are all free too, whereas a Mac
user is usually pushed toward buying something to do the same thing
inside of a GUI. There is nothing with either approach, but if you can
save money by doing something inside a terminal, you might as well do
so.
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with a
world
class GUI. It is what I wanted for many years before macOS ever existed.
I find Linux gives me that, more so than macOS would.
Then again, I
just don't dig the Mac ecosystem. For one who's primed on Apple's GUI,
the Unix components would be an excellent bonus indeed.
On 2026-05-05 08:11, John Bokma wrote:[..]
No. Linux has also find and grep, the GNU version, which has more
command line options compared to what macOS has. One can install, of
course, the GNU utilities on macOS and use those.
macOS has find and grep--it ships with them, and the ability to do
indexed searches with a command line version of "Spotlight".
On 05/05/2026 17:20, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-05 11:13 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 03:24, Joel W. Crump wrote:
[...]
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of
a 512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
They will give the lowest amount of storage and RAM they can manage
without discouraging sales. 512GB for storage and 16GB is probably the
lowest they can go today. My 2TB on the 2021 unit suddenly looks huge.
What I mean is: if they stick with 200 USD for 256GB additional storage
on the Mac mini or not and ask more to compensate for the increase in
SSD prices.
On 05/05/2026 17:50, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 08:11, John Bokma wrote:[..]
No. Linux has also find and grep, the GNU version, which has more
command line options compared to what macOS has. One can install, of
course, the GNU utilities on macOS and use those.
macOS has find and grep--it ships with them, and the ability to do
indexed searches with a command line version of "Spotlight".
find and grep on macOS have less options compared to the GNU version.
One can use Mac ports (or homebrew, I am sure) to install the GNU find
and grep.
While I don't think my M4 Air is appropriate to play games, if I did
play them on the unit and considering the small 256GB capacity, I would
use an NVMe in an enclosure and install the games onto it. It's not
ideal, but it solves a problem. To be honest, I'm not sure what the performance difference would be with this approach.
On 2026-05-05 08:54, John Bokma wrote:[..]
find and grep on macOS have less options compared to the GNU version.
One can use Mac ports (or homebrew, I am sure) to install the GNU find
and grep.
Options such as?
On 05/05/2026 18:02, CrudeSausage wrote:
[..]
While I don't think my M4 Air is appropriate to play games, if I did
Depends on what games you want to play.
play them on the unit and considering the small 256GB capacity, I
would use an NVMe in an enclosure and install the games onto it. It's
not ideal, but it solves a problem. To be honest, I'm not sure what
the performance difference would be with this approach.
It might be faster, depending on the SSD, is my understanding.
On 05/05/2026 18:06, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 08:54, John Bokma wrote:[..]
find and grep on macOS have less options compared to the GNU version.
One can use Mac ports (or homebrew, I am sure) to install the GNU
find and grep.
Options such as?
For example grep on macOS doesn't support the -P option (Perl compatible regular expression). But like I wrote, installing the GNU version via homebrew solves this.
On 2026-05-05 09:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:02, CrudeSausage wrote:
[..]
While I don't think my M4 Air is appropriate to play games, if I did
Depends on what games you want to play.
play them on the unit and considering the small 256GB capacity, I
would use an NVMe in an enclosure and install the games onto it. It's
not ideal, but it solves a problem. To be honest, I'm not sure what
the performance difference would be with this approach.
It might be faster, depending on the SSD, is my understanding.
Your understanding needs updating.
The fastest an external SSD can transfer is using Thunderbolt 4 (or
USB4) is about 3,100 MB/s.
The internal SSD of a MacBook Air is 3,500-4,000 MB/s
You're welcome.
On 2026-05-05 09:13, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:06, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 08:54, John Bokma wrote:[..]
find and grep on macOS have less options compared to the GNU
version. One can use Mac ports (or homebrew, I am sure) to install
the GNU find and grep.
Options such as?
For example grep on macOS doesn't support the -P option (Perl
compatible regular expression). But like I wrote, installing the GNU
version via homebrew solves this.
Honestly, that's it?
How is that actually much of an advantage for the GNU version?
How many times in the last year have you used grep with a regular
expression that required using Perl-compatible regex?
On 05/05/2026 18:16, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 09:13, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:06, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 08:54, John Bokma wrote:[..]
find and grep on macOS have less options compared to the GNU
version. One can use Mac ports (or homebrew, I am sure) to install
the GNU find and grep.
Options such as?
For example grep on macOS doesn't support the -P option (Perl
compatible regular expression). But like I wrote, installing the GNU
version via homebrew solves this.
Honestly, that's it?
For example.
How is that actually much of an advantage for the GNU version?
Perl compatible regular expressions are very powerful.
How many times in the last year have you used grep with a regular
expression that required using Perl-compatible regex?
In such cases I use Perl itself ;-)
But if you want to know something that's different and that I bump intoTrue.
now and then is that the GNU version of find defaults to the current
working directory while with the macOS version of find one has to
specify the working directory.
Anyway, like I wrote, the GNU version of each is just an install away.
On 05/05/2026 18:14, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 09:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:02, CrudeSausage wrote:
[..]
While I don't think my M4 Air is appropriate to play games, if I did
Depends on what games you want to play.
play them on the unit and considering the small 256GB capacity, I
would use an NVMe in an enclosure and install the games onto it.
It's not ideal, but it solves a problem. To be honest, I'm not sure
what the performance difference would be with this approach.
It might be faster, depending on the SSD, is my understanding.
Your understanding needs updating.
The fastest an external SSD can transfer is using Thunderbolt 4 (or
USB4) is about 3,100 MB/s.
The internal SSD of a MacBook Air is 3,500-4,000 MB/s
You're welcome.
Clear, thank you!
On 2026-05-05 09:59, John Bokma wrote:
For example.
I would assume you'd give the best example you could.
Anyway, like I wrote, the GNU version of each is just an install away.True.
But macOS as it comes is a fully-equipped command line system.
On 5/5/2026 9:54 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 5:55:28 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<69f9e8c0$1$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
On 2026-05-04 8:54 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with a world >> class GUI. It is what I wanted for many years before macOS ever existed.Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
I'll just bet that these applications are all free too, whereas a Mac
user is usually pushed toward buying something to do the same thing
inside of a GUI. There is nothing with either approach, but if you can
save money by doing something inside a terminal, you might as well do so. >>
I find Linux gives me that, more so than macOS would. Then again, I
just don't dig the Mac ecosystem. For one who's primed on Apple's GUI,
the Unix components would be an excellent bonus indeed.
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally faster.
I like the relative consistency and built in OS tools of macOS... but
there are times when it has things you cannot change and you are just stuck.
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
On 5/5/2026 11:13 AM, John Bokma wrote:
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of a
512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
I dunno, I mean, I got a 1 TB NVMe drive in 2021 for a little over $100,
as a part. FFS, the prices can't be *that* much higher five years
later. But with Apple, the price isn't really based on actual cost, but luxury.
On 05/05/2026 19:27, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[..]
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally
faster.
One can (almost) always install the same command on macOS.
I like the relative consistency and built in OS tools of macOS... but
there are times when it has things you cannot change and you are just stuck.
Example?
On 05/05/2026 19:35, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 5/5/2026 11:13 AM, John Bokma wrote:
good for you, but most people would rather not pay $200 for half of
a 512 GB SSD.
They might have too soon if prices keep going up. Question is what is
Apple going to do with the increased memory / SSD prices.
I dunno, I mean, I got a 1 TB NVMe drive in 2021 for a little over
$100, as a part. FFS, the prices can't be *that* much higher five
years later. But with Apple, the price isn't really based on actual
cost, but luxury.
From what I understand one pays now twice as much...
"What's going on with NVME SSD prices? From $166.98 to $395 in a year? I
was about to order another SSD to play with other OS's and dual boot,
but I guess that's not happening now. This is half complaint and half serious question. "
<https://www.reddit.com/r/PcBuild/comments/1rzdusk/ whats_going_on_with_nvme_ssd_prices/>
Soon SSD is luxury ;-).
On May 5, 2026 at 10:32:05 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote <10td9im$jmc1$1@dont-email.me>:
On 05/05/2026 19:27, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[..]
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally
faster.
One can (almost) always install the same command on macOS.
True... but Linux comes with more. There are also different flags and it is
usually easier to find Linux info.
But it is minor... and with HomeBrew even less.
For my use it is all but a non-issue except there are places Linux is
faster.
On 05/05/2026 19:50, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 10:32:05 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote
<10td9im$jmc1$1@dont-email.me>:
On 05/05/2026 19:27, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[..]
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally
faster.
One can (almost) always install the same command on macOS.
True... but Linux comes with more. There are also different flags and it is
If one installs the GNU version the flags are identical: it's the same command.
usually easier to find Linux info.
If you have installed the GNU version, you can use the same info on macOS.
But it is minor... and with HomeBrew even less.
Yup, my point.
For my use it is all but a non-issue except there are places Linux is
faster.
Sure, one can buy faster Linux hardware than hardware running macOS.
On May 5, 2026 at 10:55:57 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote <10tdavg$k6r1$1@dont-email.me>:
If one installs the GNU version the flags are identical: it's the same
command.
Ok. But not for the default ones. I have not replaced commands (though I have HomeBrew so maybe with some dependancies I have?)
On 05/05/2026 19:59, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 10:55:57 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote
<10tdavg$k6r1$1@dont-email.me>:
[..]
If one installs the GNU version the flags are identical: it's the same
command.
Ok. But not for the default ones. I have not replaced commands (though I have
HomeBrew so maybe with some dependancies I have?)
I have only experience with Mac ports. If you install GNU commands you
have to prefix them with g, e.g. gfind, gls, ggrep. You *can* "remove"
this prefix, though, see note at the bottom of <https://ports.macports.org/port/coreutils/details/>
On 05/05/2026 19:59, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 10:55:57 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote
<10tdavg$k6r1$1@dont-email.me>:
[..]
If one installs the GNU version the flags are identical: it's the same
command.
Ok. But not for the default ones. I have not replaced commands (though
I have
HomeBrew so maybe with some dependancies I have?)
I have only experience with Mac ports. If you install GNU commands you
have to prefix them with g, e.g. gfind, gls, ggrep. You *can* "remove"
this prefix, though, see note at the bottom of <https://ports.macports.org/port/coreutils/details/>
On 2026-05-05 12:49 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:14, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-05 09:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 18:02, CrudeSausage wrote:
[..]
While I don't think my M4 Air is appropriate to play games, if I did >>>>Depends on what games you want to play.
play them on the unit and considering the small 256GB capacity, I
would use an NVMe in an enclosure and install the games onto it.
It's not ideal, but it solves a problem. To be honest, I'm not sure >>>>> what the performance difference would be with this approach.
It might be faster, depending on the SSD, is my understanding.
Your understanding needs updating.
The fastest an external SSD can transfer is using Thunderbolt 4 (or
USB4) is about 3,100 MB/s.
The internal SSD of a MacBook Air is 3,500-4,000 MB/s
You're welcome.
Clear, thank you!
And that is assuming that the enclosure is actually going at the speed
of Thunderbolt rather than USB-C. Thunderbolt cables work in USB-C
ports, and vice versa, but the connection will default to the slower
speed of the two technologies involved.
On May 5, 2026 at 7:24:15 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <i4nKR.737372$yK%7.513208@fx14.iad>:
On 5/5/2026 9:54 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with a world
class GUI. It is what I wanted for many years before macOS ever existed.
I find Linux gives me that, more so than macOS would. Then again, I
just don't dig the Mac ecosystem. For one who's primed on Apple's GUI,
the Unix components would be an excellent bonus indeed.
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally faster. I like the relative consistency and built in OS tools of macOS... but there are times when it has things you cannot change and you are just stuck. Some people hate the new "Liquid Glass" look. I do not mind it -- but the change happened whether I wanted it or not. Linux gives you more choice there.
Also sometimes there are features I want where I need third parties -- for example I use third party for clipboard management, window management, mouse features, text expansion, screenshots (some), and more. For folks who do not like such additions to macOS it can be limiting... and Apple does have you jump through some hoops for security purposes to set these things up. Can be a
hurdle some do not want to deal with.
And I am pretty grossly outdated on Linux... have not used it in any real capacity in years. It was getting better and better -- I am sure that has continued.
On 5/5/2026 1:27 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 7:24:15 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<i4nKR.737372$yK%7.513208@fx14.iad>:
On 5/5/2026 9:54 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I find Linux gives me that, more so than macOS would. Then again, I
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with a world
class GUI. It is what I wanted for many years before macOS ever existed. >>>
just don't dig the Mac ecosystem. For one who's primed on Apple's GUI,
the Unix components would be an excellent bonus indeed.
For me, I prefer the Linux command line. Has more by default and is generally
faster. I like the relative consistency and built in OS tools of macOS... but
there are times when it has things you cannot change and you are just stuck. >> Some people hate the new "Liquid Glass" look. I do not mind it -- but the
change happened whether I wanted it or not. Linux gives you more choice there.
Also sometimes there are features I want where I need third parties -- for >> example I use third party for clipboard management, window management, mouse >> features, text expansion, screenshots (some), and more. For folks who do not >> like such additions to macOS it can be limiting... and Apple does have you >> jump through some hoops for security purposes to set these things up. Can be a
hurdle some do not want to deal with.
And I am pretty grossly outdated on Linux... have not used it in any real
capacity in years. It was getting better and better -- I am sure that has
continued.
Linux is fabulous. What you can do with something like Debian or
Fedora, or just Mint, being open-source, it's just marvelous. I'm
running Win11 for convenience. But Linux is a "home base", as it were.
John Bokma wrote:
Soon SSD is luxury ;-).
I _just_ missed the ridiculous price increases when I bought my 2 TB
Samsung 990 EVO for $175 CAD last year. The price has doubled since. The
way things are going, I will probably just wait for my laptop to
completely die before I replace it.
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with
a world class GUI.
On 05/05/2026 02:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
Of course. Projects like homebrew and Mac Ports show that there is a
serious interest in cli tools for macOS. Also Nix provides a huge
number of packages for macOS.
some thing wrote:
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with
a world class GUI.
Only one?
On May 5, 2026 at 10:32:05 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote <10td9im$jmc1$1@dont-email.me>:
One can (almost) always install the same command on macOS.
True... but Linux comes with more. There are also different flags
and it is usually easier to find Linux info.
If you install GNU commands you have to prefix them with g, e.g.
gfind, gls, ggrep.
CrudeSausage wrote:
John Bokma wrote:
Soon SSD is luxury ;-).
Let's hope not.
I _just_ missed the ridiculous price increases when I bought my 2 TB
Samsung 990 EVO for $175 CAD last year. The price has doubled since. The
way things are going, I will probably just wait for my laptop to
completely die before I replace it.
With the Alder Lake and Raptor Lake PC's that I built in the last few
years, I'm good for another five years or more.
Video card prices are actually still OK. I suppose because fewer new
gaming PC's are being built.
On 05 May 2026 17:50:08 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On May 5, 2026 at 10:32:05 AM MST, "John Bokma" wrote
<10td9im$jmc1$1@dont-email.me>:
One can (almost) always install the same command on macOS.
True... but Linux comes with more. There are also different flags
and it is usually easier to find Linux info.
Most Linux systems use the GNU tools, as Richard Stallman never tires
of reminding us ;).
Back in the days when “Unix” meant something, it was quite common for sysadmins, when setting up a Unix workstation or server for the first
time, to immediately install a bunch of the GNU tools, and use them in preference to the vendor-provided equivalents. The GNU versions were
usually less buggy, more featureful, and also often more
standards-compliant.
So you could say that Apple’s “Unix” continues this tradition ...
On 05 May 2026 13:54:10 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
One thing I like about macOS is the level of choice. A UNIX CLI with
a world class GUI.
Only one?
On Tue, 5 May 2026 17:37:37 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 02:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
Of course. Projects like homebrew and Mac Ports show that there is a
serious interest in cli tools for macOS. Also Nix provides a huge
number of packages for macOS.
Do they all offer the same packages? Or do you need to install more
than one to get the full range?
On Tue, 5 May 2026 20:04:19 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
If you install GNU commands you have to prefix them with g, e.g.
gfind, gls, ggrep.
If you do that, is there a chance you could cause conflicts with
scripts that rely on the Apple-provided utilities by that name?
If you don’t do that, how do you exchange compatible scripts with
Linux systems, or even BSD ones?
On 05/05/2026 23:46, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2026 17:37:37 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
On 05/05/2026 02:54, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
Of course. Projects like homebrew and Mac Ports show that there is a
serious interest in cli tools for macOS. Also Nix provides a huge
number of packages for macOS.
Do they all offer the same packages? Or do you need to install more
than one to get the full range?
I have no idea. Based on my experience homebrew is a safe bet: most open source I have seen has instructions on how to install via homebrew.
In the near future I want to check out nix.
On 2026-05-06 10:41 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
In the near future I want to check out nix.
Prepare to be disappointed.
On 06/05/2026 18:24, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-06 10:41 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
[..]
In the near future I want to check out nix.
Prepare to be disappointed.
Why?[1]
[1] I mean the package manager ;-)
On 2026-05-06 12:27 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 18:24, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-06 10:41 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
[..]
In the near future I want to check out nix.
Prepare to be disappointed.
Why?[1]
[1] I mean the package manager ;-)
Linux is filled with excellent ideas that simply aren't executed
properly.
On 06/05/2026 18:31, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:27 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 18:24, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-06 10:41 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
[..]
In the near future I want to check out nix.
Prepare to be disappointed.
Why?[1]
[1] I mean the package manager ;-)
Linux is filled with excellent ideas that simply aren't executed
properly.
It's a package manager. Not Linux.
The actual package manager is called nix?
Are Mac users really brave enough to try command-line tools?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/macos-command-line-utilities-that-are-far-more-useful-than-you-think/>
All of them are available for Linux, and are probably easier to
install and use there than on a Mac.
Guess where the “real Unix” is to be found ...
Well...I DO have it. And actually, it's much better than ag.
It's called "mdfind".
On 06/05/2026 18:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
The actual package manager is called nix?
Yes. And the OS is called NixOS: <https://nixos.org/>
On 06/05/2026 18:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
The actual package manager is called nix?
Yes. And the OS is called NixOS: <https://nixos.org/>
On 06/05/2026 19:37, Alan wrote:
[..]
Well...I DO have it. And actually, it's much better than ag.
It's called "mdfind".
While there is some overlap, they are very different tools.
On 2026-05-06 10:52, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 19:37, Alan wrote:
[..]
Well...I DO have it. And actually, it's much better than ag.
It's called "mdfind".
While there is some overlap, they are very different tools.
They ARE different tools!
But the one thing the article specifically highlights...
...is already done far, FAR better by mdfind.
That's just a fact.
On 2026-05-06 1:09 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 18:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
The actual package manager is called nix?
Yes. And the OS is called NixOS: <https://nixos.org/>
And NixOS is not Linux?
On 2026-05-06 1:09 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 18:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
The actual package manager is called nix?
Yes. And the OS is called NixOS: <https://nixos.org/>
Literally from the NixOS.org page:
"NixOS is a Linux distribution built around the Nix package manager."
On 06/05/2026 20:58, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 10:52, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 19:37, Alan wrote:
[..]
Well...I DO have it. And actually, it's much better than ag.
It's called "mdfind".
While there is some overlap, they are very different tools.
They ARE different tools!
But the one thing the article specifically highlights...
...is already done far, FAR better by mdfind.
That's just a fact.
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line the
word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
On 06/05/2026 20:04, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-05-06 1:09 p.m., John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 18:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
The actual package manager is called nix?
Yes. And the OS is called NixOS: <https://nixos.org/>
And NixOS is not Linux?
Yes, it's Linux. However, Nix (the package manager) can be used without Linux.
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line
the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line
the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after? >>>
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:Sure!
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line
the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after? >>>
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters,
and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:Sure!
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line
the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after? >>>>
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 |
xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters,
and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
On 2026-05-08 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:Sure!
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line >>>>>> the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after? >>>>>
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters,
and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
GUI part of the OS is called "Spotlight".
"mdfind" is just a command line tool that leverages the same index that
is created for Spotlight.
I just ran this:
agbaker@Alans-M3 / % time mdfind ahlstrom
The result:
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading keywords and predicates for locale "en_CA"
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading keywords and predicates for locale "en"
/Users/agbaker/Library/Group
Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/Outlook/Outlook 15 Profiles/Main Profile/Data/Messages/109/6DCA995E-E984-4A01-8FEA-ECF490248F0B.olk15Message
mdfind ahlstrom 0.04s user 0.06s system 38% cpu 0.259 total
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
And cached.
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line >>>>>>> the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters, >>>> and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
GUI part of the OS is called "Spotlight".
"mdfind" is just a command line tool that leverages the same index that
is created for Spotlight.
Duh-uh. I found that out on my own.
I just ran this:
agbaker@Alans-M3 / % time mdfind ahlstrom
The result:
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading
keywords and predicates for locale "en_CA"
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading
keywords and predicates for locale "en"
/Users/agbaker/Library/Group
Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/Outlook/Outlook 15 Profiles/Main
Profile/Data/Messages/109/6DCA995E-E984-4A01-8FEA-ECF490248F0B.olk15Message >>
mdfind ahlstrom 0.04s user 0.06s system 38% cpu 0.259 total
Whoop de do.
$ time locate ahlstrom &> /dev/null
real 0m1.027s
user 0m0.927s
sys 0m0.141s
This is on my computer, and emits 442650 hits (as counted by
piping the command to wc -l.)
Another example, a more realistic use of locate:
$ time locate vim
real 0m0.043s
user 0m0.015s
sys 0m0.023s
On 2026-05-09 05:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
And cached.
Nope.
Yes, there is an index.
No, nothing was cached.
On 2026-05-09 06:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line >>>>>>>> the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters, >>>>> and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
GUI part of the OS is called "Spotlight".
"mdfind" is just a command line tool that leverages the same index that
is created for Spotlight.
Duh-uh. I found that out on my own.
I just ran this:
agbaker@Alans-M3 / % time mdfind ahlstrom
The result:
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading
keywords and predicates for locale "en_CA"
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading
keywords and predicates for locale "en"
/Users/agbaker/Library/Group
Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/Outlook/Outlook 15 Profiles/Main
Profile/Data/Messages/109/6DCA995E-E984-4A01-8FEA-ECF490248F0B.olk15Message >>>
mdfind ahlstrom 0.04s user 0.06s system 38% cpu 0.259 total
Whoop de do.
$ time locate ahlstrom &> /dev/null
real 0m1.027s
user 0m0.927s
sys 0m0.141s
This is on my computer, and emits 442650 hits (as counted by
piping the command to wc -l.)
Another example, a more realistic use of locate:
$ time locate vim
real 0m0.043s
user 0m0.015s
sys 0m0.023s
"locate" doesn't locate everything.
"mdfind" and the system it uses indexing everything.
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-09 06:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the >>>> GUI part of the OS is called "Spotlight".
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line >>>>>>>>> the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters, >>>>>> and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
"mdfind" is just a command line tool that leverages the same index that >>>> is created for Spotlight.
Duh-uh. I found that out on my own.
I just ran this:
agbaker@Alans-M3 / % time mdfind ahlstrom
The result:
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading >>>> keywords and predicates for locale "en_CA"
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading >>>> keywords and predicates for locale "en"
/Users/agbaker/Library/Group
Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/Outlook/Outlook 15 Profiles/Main
Profile/Data/Messages/109/6DCA995E-E984-4A01-8FEA-ECF490248F0B.olk15Message
mdfind ahlstrom 0.04s user 0.06s system 38% cpu 0.259 total
Whoop de do.
$ time locate ahlstrom &> /dev/null
real 0m1.027s
user 0m0.927s
sys 0m0.141s
This is on my computer, and emits 442650 hits (as counted by
piping the command to wc -l.)
Another example, a more realistic use of locate:
$ time locate vim
real 0m0.043s
user 0m0.015s
sys 0m0.023s
"locate" doesn't locate everything.
Define "everything".
"mdfind" and the system it uses indexing everything.
You really need to be precise, because index all information on
a disk would be huge.
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
Fwiw, /var/lib/plocate/plocate.db is about 22 Mb on this system.
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-09 05:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
And cached.
Nope.
Yes, there is an index.
No, nothing was cached.
Are you saying that MacOS does not cache data? Data such as... an
index?
Surely you're joking, Mr. Fine Man!
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-09 06:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:You need to learn a little more about how Apple implemented what in the >>>> GUI part of the OS is called "Spotlight".
On 2026-05-07 03:08, John Bokma wrote:
On 06/05/2026 22:34, Alan wrote:
On 2026-05-06 12:57, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
Can you show me how to use mdfind to:
search in all python only files for the word 'cat' showing the line >>>>>>>>> the word 'cat' is found on and the 3 lines before this line and 2 after?
Sure!
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all!
Ok, fair enough, although you need extra commands.
ag --python -B3 -A2 '\bcat\b'
Easier to remember.
Given that the tools exist to "remember" for you, that hardly matters, >>>>>> and I guarantee you that mdfind is orders of magnitude faster.
Sounds a bit like UNIX locate/plocate.
"mdfind" is just a command line tool that leverages the same index that >>>> is created for Spotlight.
Duh-uh. I found that out on my own.
I just ran this:
agbaker@Alans-M3 / % time mdfind ahlstrom
The result:
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading >>>> keywords and predicates for locale "en_CA"
2026-05-08 11:37:24.286 mdfind[57515:2714553] [UserQueryParser] Loading >>>> keywords and predicates for locale "en"
/Users/agbaker/Library/Group
Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/Outlook/Outlook 15 Profiles/Main
Profile/Data/Messages/109/6DCA995E-E984-4A01-8FEA-ECF490248F0B.olk15Message
mdfind ahlstrom 0.04s user 0.06s system 38% cpu 0.259 total
Whoop de do.
$ time locate ahlstrom &> /dev/null
real 0m1.027s
user 0m0.927s
sys 0m0.141s
This is on my computer, and emits 442650 hits (as counted by
piping the command to wc -l.)
Another example, a more realistic use of locate:
$ time locate vim
real 0m0.043s
user 0m0.015s
sys 0m0.023s
"locate" doesn't locate everything.
Define "everything".
"mdfind" and the system it uses indexing everything.
You really need to be precise, because index all information on
a disk would be huge.
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
Fwiw, /var/lib/plocate/plocate.db is about 22 Mb on this system.
On 2026-05-10 05:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-09 05:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all! >>>>>>>>
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
And cached.
Nope.
Yes, there is an index.
No, nothing was cached.
Are you saying that MacOS does not cache data? Data such as... an
index?
Surely you're joking, Mr. Fine Man!
An index is not a cache.
You were trying to imply that it ran fast because it had run immediately before.
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-10 05:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-09 05:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On 2026-05-08 10:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Alan wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:Nope.
On 2026-05-06 18:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2026 13:34:55 -0700, Alan wrote:
Sure!And this is easier than 'find . -name "*.py" | .....
mdfind "kMDItemFSName == '*.py' && kMDItemTextContent == 'cat'" -0 | >>>>>>>>>> xargs -0 grep -i -B 3 -A 2 "cat"
Didn't need to install an additional piece of software at all! >>>>>>>>>
Faster... ...like a LOT faster; impossibly faster.
On my drive with 2,711,067 files, running my command takes...
(Running it again now)
...1 second.
Cached, obviously :-D
Indexed.
And cached.
Nope.
Yes, there is an index.
No, nothing was cached.
Are you saying that MacOS does not cache data? Data such as... an
index?
Surely you're joking, Mr. Fine Man!
An index is not a cache.
Duh!
You were trying to imply that it ran fast because it had run immediately
before.
I'm done with you, so obtuse, on this topic.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around with GIS stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to handle tile requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
Arguing with an Apple fanboi is like mud wrestling a pig.
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around with GIS stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to handle tile requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around with GIS >> stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to handle tile
requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
Arguing with an Apple fanboi is like mud wrestling a pig.
Seems so. I explicitly noted that an index can be cached.
On 2026-05-11 04:33, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around
with GIS stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to
handle tile requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
Arguing with an Apple fanboi is like mud wrestling a pig.
Seems so. I explicitly noted that an index can be cached.
No. You made no such explicit claim...
...but good job running away to the safety of COLA.
:-)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in news:10tt3h2$19gng$2@dont-email.me:
On 2026-05-11 04:33, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around
with GIS stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to
handle tile requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
Arguing with an Apple fanboi is like mud wrestling a pig.
Seems so. I explicitly noted that an index can be cached.
No. You made no such explicit claim...
...but good job running away to the safety of COLA.
:-)
How much is Apple paying you Alan to be an extreme fanboy?
Whatever it is, they are wasting their money because you are considered a joke. Nobody trusts your post. Most people ignore them.
So how much you making to spew this garbage?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in news:10tt3h2$19gng$2@dont-email.me:
On 2026-05-11 04:33, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:
On Sun, 10 May 2026 08:16:39 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
$ locate xyz
This finds about 20 files on this system.
It finds 134 on mine :) That's what happens when you mess around
with GIS stuff. There are a lot of Python and Node library files to
handle tile requests. The plocate database is 40 MB.
Arguing with an Apple fanboi is like mud wrestling a pig.
Seems so. I explicitly noted that an index can be cached.
No. You made no such explicit claim...
...but good job running away to the safety of COLA.
:-)
How much is Apple paying you Alan to be an extreme fanboy?
Whatever it is, they are wasting their money because you are considered a joke. Nobody trusts your post. Most people ignore them.
So how much you making to spew this garbage?
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,116 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 86:13:02 |
| Calls: | 14,305 |
| Files: | 186,338 |
| D/L today: |
852 files (266M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,525,504 |