Straw is bundled into long loose things and laid down on the
hillsides to catch the eroding soil and hopefully slow the rush of
water. No it is not an ecosystem but a poor subsitute for what cannot
be recreated quickly.
Mine has a touch screen. I don't actually use it, but I was curious. It
works as a mouse.
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
On 12/16/25 12:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But I still do not understand what you said about the roots. :-?
I may be able to shed light. Roots of plants, trees and bushes can smoulder underground with very little oxygen but when they reach fuel
and air can burn with fresh vigor.
My family suffered from such an incident in the 1940s and it wiped out the new chicken house on which our farm hoped to profit.
Straw is bundled into long loose things and laid down on the hillsides to catch the eroding soil and hopefully slow the rush of
water. No it is not an ecosystem but a poor subsitute for what
cannot be recreated quickly.
I see that we have sod farms where grass was previously
exclusively grown. Now a new product has appeared which is
native plants and especially in this case wild flowers which are
to use to attract and feed pollinators. A similar product might
be used in the future to recreate more quickly the fire-damaged
ecosystem or so it seems to me.
Some kind of 'bio-goop' containing agents that thicken soil, retain
moisture, combined with some fungal spores and simple grass seeds
.... ?
On 16/12/2025 12:26, Daniel70 wrote:
On 16/12/2025 5:18 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:He is at the limit already.
On 14/12/2025 06:33, c186282 wrote:
OR Putin would just step up the size/number ofHe cabt. He as at the kimit alreday
missiles sent into Ukraine ....
?? What??
On Fri, 12 Dec 2025 03:42:57 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I never drove an automatic car.
She was around 70 when I had to convince my mother she could drive an automatic. She'd only been driving since 1921 and had taught her father
how to drive. She adapted to AT, power brakes, and power steering nicely.
My first car was an automatic but I eventually replaced the tired Torqueflight with a manual. Easier said than done.
On 2025-12-12 20:12, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:44:34 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My current car has pressure sensors on the 4 wheels. I can read the
values in the dash display. I think the sensor is in the valve, with a
battery and a radio.
Yes. My car reports low pressure by turning on a light, but not the
pressure in each tire. The wheels with the studded tires don't have
sensors so the light is on during the winter.
When you bought new tires there was always a charge for new valve stems
that I thought was a bit of a scam. The first time I bought tires for a
car with sensors I thought they wouldn't charge for new stems. No, they
charged for 'rebuilding' the sensors. I think you can replace the battery
in some, but not all, models so it still smells like a scam.
I still have not changed the rubbers on my current car. It has nearly
90000 Km, and I usually get around 95000 Km out of them. So I will find
that out soon. Within a year, probably.
On 2025-12-12 05:20, c186282 wrote:
On 12/11/25 05:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 06:22, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
...
If not, then the estimation based on raw diameter or
circumference will be Good Enough to guess if yer new tires put
you at legal risk.
It's just TOO easy to get hung up on the decimal points.
Here we can not just put any wheel on a car, it has to be an
approved one.
Still emulating the fascists I see ... what was the point in
fighting them way back when ?
USA you can get any brand, almost any size. You can mix sizes if
you want.
You can put any wheel, but you need a technician or an engineer to
certify the road worthiness of the modification. And it probably has
to pass a test. The test is mandatory every few years for all
vehicles.
It actually saves lives.--
Having lost most of my right arm in a car accident(in a Manual car
almost 50 years ago), I HAVE TO drive an Automatic.
In the almost 50 years since that accident, I have only driven a Manual
ONCE .... and the Car's owner was sitting in the Passenger seat to move
the gear stick when required.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:11:17 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Having lost most of my right arm in a car accident(in a Manual car
almost 50 years ago), I HAVE TO drive an Automatic.
In the almost 50 years since that accident, I have only driven a Manual >>ONCE .... and the Car's owner was sitting in the Passenger seat to move
the gear stick when required.
Many years ago when I broke my right arm, I continued to drive my
vehicle with a 5-speed manual by reaching across with my left arm. It
wasn't a problem and I assume you could do the same if you had to.
On 17/12/2025 1:29 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2025 12:26, Daniel70 wrote:Yes, would you believe, before clicking on this reply, I re-read my post
On 16/12/2025 5:18 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:He is at the limit already.
On 14/12/2025 06:33, c186282 wrote:
OR Putin would just step up the size/number ofHe cabt. He as at the kimit alreday
missiles sent into Ukraine ....
?? What??
and your post with-in my post .... and it all made sense!! Allowing for
a bit of keyboard inaccuracy.
"He cabt. He as at the kimit alreday" becomes "He cant. He is at the
limit already".
On 13/12/2025 12:54 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-12 05:20, c186282 wrote:
On 12/11/25 05:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 06:22, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
...
If not, then the estimation based on raw diameter or
circumference will be Good Enough to guess if yer new tires put
you at legal risk.
It's just TOO easy to get hung up on the decimal points.
Here we can not just put any wheel on a car, it has to be an
approved one.
Still emulating the fascists I see ... what was the point in
fighting them way back when ?
USA you can get any brand, almost any size. You can mix sizes if
you want.
You can put any wheel, but you need a technician or an engineer to
certify the road worthiness of the modification. And it probably has
to pass a test. The test is mandatory every few years for all
vehicles.
Not mandatory here in Australia. My car is approaching 15 years old .... never been checked that I know of.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:11:17 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Having lost most of my right arm in a car accident(in a Manual car
almost 50 years ago), I HAVE TO drive an Automatic.
In the almost 50 years since that accident, I have only driven a Manual
ONCE .... and the Car's owner was sitting in the Passenger seat to move
the gear stick when required.
Many years ago when I broke my right arm, I continued to drive my
vehicle with a 5-speed manual by reaching across with my left arm. It
wasn't a problem and I assume you could do the same if you had to.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:11:17 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Having lost most of my right arm in a car accident(in a Manual car
almost 50 years ago), I HAVE TO drive an Automatic.
In the almost 50 years since that accident, I have only driven a Manual >>ONCE .... and the Car's owner was sitting in the Passenger seat to move >>the gear stick when required.
Many years ago when I broke my right arm, I continued to drive my
vehicle with a 5-speed manual by reaching across with my left arm. It
wasn't a problem and I assume you could do the same if you had to.
On 12/17/25 07:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 17/12/2025 1:29 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/12/2025 12:26, Daniel70 wrote:Yes, would you believe, before clicking on this reply, I re-read my
On 16/12/2025 5:18 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:He is at the limit already.
On 14/12/2025 06:33, c186282 wrote:
OR Putin would just step up the size/number ofHe cabt. He as at the kimit alreday
missiles sent into Ukraine ....
?? What??
post and your post with-in my post .... and it all made sense!!
Allowing for a bit of keyboard inaccuracy.
"He cabt. He as at the kimit alreday" becomes "He cant. He is at the
limit already".
Heh heh ...
But Putin is NOT at any limit ... esp with China/NK
now adding to his capabilities.
On 12/17/25 13:28, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:11:17 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Having lost most of my right arm in a car accident(in a Manual car
almost 50 years ago), I HAVE TO drive an Automatic.
In the almost 50 years since that accident, I have only driven a Manual
ONCE .... and the Car's owner was sitting in the Passenger seat to move
the gear stick when required.
Many years ago when I broke my right arm, I continued to drive my
vehicle with a 5-speed manual by reaching across with my left arm. It
wasn't a problem and I assume you could do the same if you had to.
He probably COULD ... but it'd be clunky. A better
task for a young guy.
On 12/16/25 12:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But I still do not understand what you said about the roots. :-?
I may be able to shed light. Roots of plants, trees and bushes can smoulder underground with very little oxygen but when they reach fuel
and air can burn with fresh vigor.
My family suffered from such an incident in the 1940s and it wiped out the new chicken house on which our farm hoped to profit.
Straw is bundled into long loose things and laid down on the hillsides to catch the eroding soil and hopefully slow the rush of
water. No it is not an ecosystem but a poor subsitute for what
cannot be recreated quickly.
I see that we have sod farms where grass was previously--
exclusively grown. Now a new product has appeared which is
native plants and especially in this case wild flowers which are
to use to attract and feed pollinators. A similar product might
be used in the future to recreate more quickly the fire-damaged
ecosystem or so it seems to me.
bliss
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 21:42:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, I remember there were huge fires. The most worrisome were inside
the city. Unstoppable.
But I still do not understand what you said about the roots. :-?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-10-30/firefighters-ordered- to-leave-smoldering-palisades-burn-site
"details about the Los Angeles Fire Department’s handling of the Lachman fire, which federal investigators say was deliberately set and had burned underground in a canyon root system until the winds rekindled it. The
third party asked that he and the firefighters not be named because they
were not authorized to speak publicly. The LAFD declined to comment on the text messages but has said officials believed the fire was fully extinguished."
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 22:07:53 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Mine has a touch screen. I don't actually use it, but I was curious. It
works as a mouse.
Including the greasy little trails? Every now and then I give the phone
and tablets an alcohol wipe down when they get too disgusting.
On 2025-12-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 16/12/2025 2:28 pm, c186282 wrote:
I guess the next decade's "automobiles" will be like a "Johnny Cab"
... YOU don't do anything but tell it where you want to go
Yeap, and it will be 'talking' to all the other vehicles so it will
decide how to get you to where you think you want to go.
Shades of 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Hurricane
"Other features included Pathfinder, which used magnetic signals built
into the road to guide the driver."
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
- assuming that's in its database and assuming you want it all
reported in detail to govt agencies LOOKING to fuck you ...........
WHAT?? My Government trying to do me over! That'd never happen, would it??
Certainly not. Otherwise, if they wanted you they would just make your self-driving car lock the doors and take you to a secure police compound.
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
Even if the definition of "wrong" can change retroactively?
On 14/12/2025 9:55 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-12 20:12, rbowman wrote:WOW!! 95,000 Km!! I thought I was doing well getting 60,000 - 65,000 out
On Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:44:34 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My current car has pressure sensors on the 4 wheels. I can read the
values in the dash display. I think the sensor is in the valve, with a >>>> battery and a radio.
Yes. My car reports low pressure by turning on a light, but not the
pressure in each tire. The wheels with the studded tires don't have
sensors so the light is on during the winter.
When you bought new tires there was always a charge for new valve stems
that I thought was a bit of a scam. The first time I bought tires for a
car with sensors I thought they wouldn't charge for new stems. No, they
charged for 'rebuilding' the sensors. I think you can replace the
battery
in some, but not all, models so it still smells like a scam.
I still have not changed the rubbers on my current car. It has nearly
90000 Km, and I usually get around 95000 Km out of them. So I will
find that out soon. Within a year, probably.
of a set of tyres on my Mazda 3!!
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around for some
time after the fire is put out.
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ? of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles. >When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for many
months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around for some
time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-release-100- >times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Run_mine_fire
Possibly some of the cause is the ponderosa pines are large trees but have >very shallow roots so some oxygen is available. In the 2003 fire there was >no rekindling since there was nothing left to burn.
On 2025-12-17 01:51, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 21:42:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, I remember there were huge fires. The most worrisome were inside
the city. Unstoppable.
But I still do not understand what you said about the roots. :-?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-10-30/firefighters-ordered-
to-leave-smoldering-palisades-burn-site
"details about the Los Angeles Fire Department’s handling of the Lachman >> fire, which federal investigators say was deliberately set and had burned
underground in a canyon root system until the winds rekindled it. The
third party asked that he and the firefighters not be named because they
were not authorized to speak publicly. The LAFD declined to comment on
the
text messages but has said officials believed the fire was fully
extinguished."
I see.
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around for some time after the fire is put out.
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-12-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 16/12/2025 2:28 pm, c186282 wrote:
I guess the next decade's "automobiles" will be like a "Johnny Cab"
... YOU don't do anything but tell it where you want to go
Yeap, and it will be 'talking' to all the other vehicles so it will
decide how to get you to where you think you want to go.
Shades of 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Hurricane
"Other features included Pathfinder, which used magnetic signals built
into the road to guide the driver."
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the
protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
Wow.
I would think of smart tvs showing adverts, and if you do not pay
attention, something they know by photographing your eyes, they would
replay again and again the adverts before letting us watch the movie :-P
On 19 Dec 2025 02:01:51 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for many >>> months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around for some >>> time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-release-100- >> times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Run_mine_fire
Possibly some of the cause is the ponderosa pines are large trees but have >> very shallow roots so some oxygen is available. In the 2003 fire there was >> no rekindling since there was nothing left to burn.
Do you guys remember the coal fire that's been burning in Pennsylvania
since 1962? They expect it to burn for another 250 years before it burns
out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
On 19 Dec 2025 02:01:51 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around
for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Run_mine_fire
Possibly some of the cause is the ponderosa pines are large trees but
have very shallow roots so some oxygen is available. In the 2003 fire
there was no rekindling since there was nothing left to burn.
Do you guys remember the coal fire that's been burning in Pennsylvania
since 1962? They expect it to burn for another 250 years before it burns
out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
On 2025-12-17 02:15, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 22:07:53 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Mine has a touch screen. I don't actually use it, but I was curious. It
works as a mouse.
Including the greasy little trails? Every now and then I give the phone
and tablets an alcohol wipe down when they get too disgusting.
I use an specific screen cleaning product from my local supermarket :-)
No, I mean I was curious to find out if a touch screen could be useful.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles. When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Certainly not. Otherwise, if they wanted you they would just make your
self-driving car lock the doors and take you to a secure police compound.
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
Even if the definition of "wrong" can change retroactively?
On one Asimov tale, a character goes back in time several times, to
change life, but not his enemy, till a moment in the future where what
his enemy did sometime that was was praiseworthy becomes very bad
(because of his tiny changes of the timeline) and he is arrested.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles.
When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
On 19/12/2025 8:56 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
<Snip>
Certainly not. Otherwise, if they wanted you they would just make your >>> self-driving car lock the doors and take you to a secure police
compound.
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
Even if the definition of "wrong" can change retroactively?
On one Asimov tale, a character goes back in time several times, to
change life, but not his enemy, till a moment in the future where what
his enemy did sometime that was was praiseworthy becomes very bad
(because of his tiny changes of the timeline) and he is arrested.
But doesn't the "Back to the Future" trilogy of films prove that false??
He goes back to 1955 or so, changes things comes back to "present day"
but things are different.
On 12/18/25 16:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-12-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 16/12/2025 2:28 pm, c186282 wrote:
I guess the next decade's "automobiles" will be like a "Johnny Cab"
... YOU don't do anything but tell it where you want to go
Yeap, and it will be 'talking' to all the other vehicles so it will
decide how to get you to where you think you want to go.
Shades of 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Hurricane
"Other features included Pathfinder, which used magnetic signals built >>>> into the road to guide the driver."
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the
protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
Wow.
I would think of smart tvs showing adverts, and if you do not pay
attention, something they know by photographing your eyes, they would
replay again and again the adverts before letting us watch the movie :-P
Oddly, heard on US news just the other day about
a self-driving car that got into a bit of a crash.
Its response was to lock the doors - "for the
passengers safety" - and they couldn't get out.
Emergency services had to crack the thing open ...
If the battery pack had lit off .......
On Thu, 12/18/2025 4:49 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 02:15, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 22:07:53 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Mine has a touch screen. I don't actually use it, but I was curious. It >>>> works as a mouse.
Including the greasy little trails? Every now and then I give the phone
and tablets an alcohol wipe down when they get too disgusting.
I use an specific screen cleaning product from my local supermarket :-)
No, I mean I was curious to find out if a touch screen could be useful.
Touch screens support gestures.
I can give an example at the mall. The mall has a very large touchscreen
for directory lookup. I would touch the screen with a knuckle (as it's
not a particularly high-precision touch screen). There is an OSK on the screen, you can use a knuckle to tap out the letters of the store name.
I had selected a store and was encouraging the map to move towards
the store in question.
Well, the screen got rotated. I couldn't figure out what to do.
Then I remembered some conversations from here, about Windows 8 gestures.
I put two fingers on the screen, moved the fingers together ("pinch")
and then rotated the fingers. The entire map rotated in response.
That's one gesture that came in handy, at the mall screen. I'm sure any
of the teenagers at the mall knew that, but it took me at least a
minute to dig that up.
Another popular gesture is the "mark of Zorro", which is the letter Z.
If you make a motion like the letter Z, that is "dismiss" and will
close an application window. Without having to touch a knuckle to the
"X" in the upper right corner.
At work, we had CAD software, with gestures. You made gestures with the mouse.
A touch screen is not necessary. Well, my fellow engineers, upon learning
of the "dismiss" gesture, you could look across the room, and it
looked like a "Zorro contest" :-) A bunch of idiots making Z letters
using their mouse :-)
The reason I have to pass that one on to you, is the anecdotal findings
on gestures, is users can only memorize a small set of them. The "suite" might have twenty gestures. The users might remember two of them. They
can Zorro like crazy... because they don't remember the others. And
that is a simplified account of gestures...
The Zorro crap eventually lost its charm, and the mouse was used
with less flourish because frankly, the staff were exhausted from too
many days of overtime. Our star engineer, used to complain that he
hadn't seen his girlfriend in months. To which we would reply "what girlfriend?".
As a measure of the hopelessness of the situation.
Paul
On 19 Dec 2025 03:24:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ? of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles.
When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
90,000 km is only a little over 55,000 miles. I got 85,000 miles from
the factory stock tires on my car, and I replaced those with tires that
had an 80,000 mile warranty. I'm almost certain I'll be selling that car
long before I can wear out the current set.
On my pickup, I replaced the factory tires at 26,000 miles, but I
replaced them because they were 10 years old, not because the tread was
worn.
On 19/12/2025 2:24 pm, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:Back in the day, didn't they also suggest changing sides, i.e. LF - RR,
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles.
When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
RR - LF, RF - LR, LR - RF??
And, some how, you were supposed to throw the Spare Tyre into the mix as well ....
but now that you might not actually get a Spare Tyre, just an--
Emergency Tyre...... ??
We're not allowed to drive on steel studs, and this advert does not say
what the studs are made of. Some of our tires are augmented with walnut shells, which is easier on the road surface. Even some of the winter
bicycle tires here, have walnut shells or similar "soft" materials. I
haven't checked but I doubt a steel stud on a bicycle tire is really a
good idea (engineering issue).
https://www.amazon.ca/Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-Studded-205-55R16/dp/B09BF64WZZ
Back in the day, didn't they also suggest changing sides, i.e. LF - RR,
RR - LF, RF - LR, LR - RF??
And, some how, you were supposed to throw the Spare Tyre into the mix as
well .... but now that you might not actually get a Spare Tyre, just an Emergency Tyre...... ??
Some rubber last long. This is an Opel Corsa with the factory
Continental rubbers.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 00:58:03 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
On 19 Dec 2025 02:01:51 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around
for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire >>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Run_mine_fire
Possibly some of the cause is the ponderosa pines are large trees but >>>have very shallow roots so some oxygen is available. In the 2003 fire >>>there was no rekindling since there was nothing left to burn.
Do you guys remember the coal fire that's been burning in Pennsylvania
since 1962? They expect it to burn for another 250 years before it burns
out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Er, yeah. The link is in the material you quoted, along with the Laurel
Run link.
https://www.amazon.ca/Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-Studded-205-55R16/dp/B09BF64WZZ
I had a set of Nokians that I really liked. The car they were on was taken out by a snowplow in March so I left them on the wreck and kept the summer set. I should have changed them out. I couldn't find Nokians when I
replaced them.
On 19/12/2025 8:56 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
<Snip>
Certainly not. Otherwise, if they wanted you they would just make your >>> self-driving car lock the doors and take you to a secure police compound. >>>
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
Even if the definition of "wrong" can change retroactively?
On one Asimov tale, a character goes back in time several times, to
change life, but not his enemy, till a moment in the future where what
his enemy did sometime that was was praiseworthy becomes very bad
(because of his tiny changes of the timeline) and he is arrested.
But doesn't the "Back to the Future" trilogy of films prove that false??
He goes back to 1955 or so, changes things comes back to "present day"
but things are different.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for many
months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around for some
time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-release-100- times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Run_mine_fire
Possibly some of the cause is the ponderosa pines are large trees but have very shallow roots so some oxygen is available. In the 2003 fire there was--
no rekindling since there was nothing left to burn.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 15:46:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Some rubber last long. This is an Opel Corsa with the factory
Continental rubbers.
The original rear tire on my Sportster lasted close to 20,000 miles. It
was a Dunlop tire often referred to by Sportster riders as Dunrocks. Great tread life, not so great traction. I replaced them with Bridgestone Spitfires. I only got 8,000 miles on the rear but the miles were more
fun :)
In the US manufacturers game the EPA fleet mileage requirements by
installing low rolling resistance tires. You can get LRR tires with
compounds that increase tire life but they cost more. The Yaris is
Toyota's cheapest model so the OEM tires aren't premium. Toyota must have gotten a good deal because the first one had Bridgestone Potenzas which
are usually sold as a performance tire. They are not optimized for long
life.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 05:06:24 -0500, Paul wrote:
We're not allowed to drive on steel studs, and this advert does not say
what the studs are made of. Some of our tires are augmented with walnut
shells, which is easier on the road surface. Even some of the winter
bicycle tires here, have walnut shells or similar "soft" materials. I
haven't checked but I doubt a steel stud on a bicycle tire is really a
good idea (engineering issue).
We can use studs from October 1 - May 31.. I put them on at the end of November and take them off in the spring depending on the conditions but
it's never been that late, usually sometime in March.
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around
for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump filling
the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the
mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
My late cousin (Canadian) put thumbtack inside the tire, flat side
touching the tube, and points peeking out through the tire, on a
bicycle, and used that to go to work in winter. Parking was terrible in
the city, he said.
On 19/12/2025 8:56 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
<Snip>
Certainly not. Otherwise, if they wanted you they would just make your >>> self-driving car lock the doors and take you to a secure police
compound.
"If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."
Even if the definition of "wrong" can change retroactively?
On one Asimov tale, a character goes back in time several times, to
change life, but not his enemy, till a moment in the future where what
his enemy did sometime that was was praiseworthy becomes very bad
(because of his tiny changes of the timeline) and he is arrested.
But doesn't the "Back to the Future" trilogy of films prove that false??
He goes back to 1955 or so, changes things comes back to "present day"
but things are different.
On 19/12/2025 2:24 pm, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:Back in the day, didn't they also suggest changing sides, i.e. LF - RR,
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front,
at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles.
When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
RR - LF, RF - LR, LR - RF??
And, some how, you were supposed to throw the Spare Tyre into the mix as well .... but now that you might not actually get a Spare Tyre, just an Emergency Tyre...... ??
On 2025-12-19 08:15, c186282 wrote:
On 12/18/25 16:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-12-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 16/12/2025 2:28 pm, c186282 wrote:
I guess the next decade's "automobiles" will be like a "Johnny Cab" >>>>>> ... YOU don't do anything but tell it where you want to go
Yeap, and it will be 'talking' to all the other vehicles so it will
decide how to get you to where you think you want to go.
Shades of 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Hurricane
"Other features included Pathfinder, which used magnetic signals built >>>>> into the road to guide the driver."
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the
protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
Wow.
I would think of smart tvs showing adverts, and if you do not pay
attention, something they know by photographing your eyes, they would
replay again and again the adverts before letting us watch the movie :-P
Oddly, heard on US news just the other day about
a self-driving car that got into a bit of a crash.
Its response was to lock the doors - "for the
passengers safety" - and they couldn't get out.
Emergency services had to crack the thing open ...
Gosh.
If the battery pack had lit off .......
On 2025-12-19 07:55, Char Jackson wrote:
On 19 Dec 2025 03:24:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front, >>>> at about 30000 Km, ? of life. The front wheels get more worn out than
the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles. >>> When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires >>> and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
90,000 km is only a little over 55,000 miles. I got 85,000 miles from
the factory stock tires on my car, and I replaced those with tires that
had an 80,000 mile warranty. I'm almost certain I'll be selling that car
long before I can wear out the current set.
On my pickup, I replaced the factory tires at 26,000 miles, but I
replaced them because they were 10 years old, not because the tread was
worn.
Some rubber last long. This is an Opel Corsa with the factory
Continental rubbers.
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 22:28:38 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around
for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump filling
the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the
mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
That's it in a nutshell. They thought they were dealing with a strip mine
or basically a big hole in the ground that was filled with garbage and burning it was a good idea. They didn't realize the garbage was covering
the entrance to a labyrinth of underground coal mines.
Setting fire to garbage was illegal in the first place so they messed
around trying to cover their tracks and kept getting deeper and deeper in shit. The miners followed coal veins so it was a real labyrinth.
https://storyofbutte.org/files/show/5725
Butte was copper mines but the whole town is sort of sitting on an ant
hill. There is a museum there that has so 3D models that were prepared for lawsuits that are really impressive. The suits occurred when Company A following a vein broke through into Company B's tunnels. I have no idea
how they even knew where they were.
Butte has the opposite problem to a mine fire. When they switched to an
open pit and turned off the pumps in the underground mine tunnels the
whole mess filled with highly toxic water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
On 12/19/25 09:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 08:15, c186282 wrote:
On 12/18/25 16:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-17 01:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-12-16, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 16/12/2025 2:28 pm, c186282 wrote:
I guess the next decade's "automobiles" will be like a "Johnny Cab" >>>>>>> ... YOU don't do anything but tell it where you want to go
Yeap, and it will be 'talking' to all the other vehicles so it will >>>>>> decide how to get you to where you think you want to go.
Shades of 1969 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Hurricane
"Other features included Pathfinder, which used magnetic signals
built
into the road to guide the driver."
On the other hand, I once read a science fiction story where the
protagonist's self-driving car pulled off to the side of the road,
locked the doors, and refused to let him move until he bought
whatever was being advertised on the radio. (Fortunately for
him a friend passing by saw his predicament and rescued him.)
Wow.
I would think of smart tvs showing adverts, and if you do not pay
attention, something they know by photographing your eyes, they
would replay again and again the adverts before letting us watch the
movie :-P
Oddly, heard on US news just the other day about
a self-driving car that got into a bit of a crash.
Its response was to lock the doors - "for the
passengers safety" - and they couldn't get out.
Emergency services had to crack the thing open ...
Gosh.
And REAL ... I'll see if I can still find the exact article.
THESE are 'related' :
https://www.carscoops.com/2025/09/electric-door-handles-under-scrutiny- after-deadly-crashes/
https://www.hilliard-law.com/blog/2024/december/addressing-the-tragic- consequences-of-tesla-door/
Functionaries (+AI now) in the development chain sometimes
come to INSANE 'solutions' for dealing with little problems.
If the battery pack had lit off .......
I still THINK about that ..... 1500-degree flames, screaming,
little children horribly roasted to death .....
And connected corporate lawyers making it ALL go away.
Gasoline cars CAN be bad sometimes, but lithium
battery packs failing ......
IMHO, buy a diesel vehicle. A tad smokey, but ...
"Cheat Chips"/uploads that actually give good
performance allegedly CAN be had.
On 12/19/25 09:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 07:55, Char Jackson wrote:
On 19 Dec 2025 03:24:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front, >>>>> at about 30000 Km, ? of life. The front wheels get more worn out than >>>>> the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000
miles.
When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR
tires
and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
90,000 km is only a little over 55,000 miles. I got 85,000 miles from
the factory stock tires on my car, and I replaced those with tires that
had an 80,000 mile warranty. I'm almost certain I'll be selling that car >>> long before I can wear out the current set.
On my pickup, I replaced the factory tires at 26,000 miles, but I
replaced them because they were 10 years old, not because the tread was
worn.
Some rubber last long. This is an Opel Corsa with the factory
Continental rubbers.
Rubber, even quality rubber, EVENTUALLY goes stiff
and rots. It's chemistry.
Spend just a LITTLE more money on 'quality' and
you buy a LOT more slack.
On 12/19/25 06:48, Daniel70 wrote:
On 19/12/2025 2:24 pm, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 23:07:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:Back in the day, didn't they also suggest changing sides, i.e. LF -
I just switch the front wheels to the rear, and the rear to the front, >>>> at about 30000 Km, ⅓ of life. The front wheels get more worn out than >>>> the rear, so I have to do that trick so that the four do last. The
mechanic doesn't like it, but I know my way of driving
The Toyota maintenance schedule is to rotate the tires every 5000 miles. >>> When I switch to studs in the winter I mark the LF, LR, RF, and RR tires >>> and in the spring put the LF on the LR etc and call it good enough. I
still don't get 90k km.
RR, RR - LF, RF - LR, LR - RF??
And, some how, you were supposed to throw the Spare Tyre into the mix
as well .... but now that you might not actually get a Spare Tyre,
just an Emergency Tyre...... ??
I don't think you can get anything ELSE these days
in USA. It's ALWAYS that hard little sub-tire in
a compartment in the trunk/boot. It's so stiff you
can't even tell if it's got pressure ... and really
that BARELY matters. They OUGHT to just make them
full of urea foam ... always 'inflated'.
A *few* SUVs/Jeeps have a special rack on the back
that'll fit FULL-sized spares. Alas, so exposed,
SOME punk will let out all the air or slash it :-)
HAVE seen a very few mounts with a fiberglass/plastic
cover OVER the tire. Good idea - but does speak about
'human nature' eh ?
As for "rotating" ... yes, it IS the ideal thing.
However FEW do it ... too much expense or trouble.
In USA tires are not THAT damned expensive so, well,
you just wait until they show bald spots and then
replace with new.
Any good tire you can get in USA - Goodyear, Michelin,
Firestone, Cooper etc - can last a LONG LONG time.
Some people DO drive 100,000+ a year, but MOST don't
come near that. I'm old now, I go to the food and
convenience store. The tires will ROT before I
wear them out. Came into a car my mother owned when
she got too old/blind to drive. The (original) tires
were actually rotting because she never WENT more
than a few miles once a week.
About then or earlier I bough some good boots for mountain sports. I
think I actually used them 4 times over the years, but the last time,
the sole got unglued from the rest of the boot, on both boots, like a
gaping mouth, at the start of the trek. The boots were not even ten
years old, maybe 6. The rubber was still soft, but the boots were
garbage material. Fault of the glue, or one intermediate layer that decomposed.
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven with filters for toxic fumes.
For some reason, I was using at my fifties some boots that were bought
when I was a teenager. Size was correct, soles had their crests and valleys, not much used, but little actual grip. I finally threw them away.
About then or earlier I bough some good boots for mountain sports. I think
I actually used them 4 times over the years, but the last time, the sole
got unglued from the rest of the boot, on both boots, like a gaping mouth,
at the start of the trek. The boots were not even ten years old, maybe 6. The rubber was still soft, but the boots were garbage material. Fault of
the glue, or one intermediate layer that decomposed.
On Sat, 12/20/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven with filters for toxic fumes.
An entrepreneur tried this and eventually gave up.
The process was not clean enough to be used, without consequences.
Any of the chemists I graduated with, could have told this person it won't work.
It might have been something like dioxin. There was never a "final report"
or "lessons learned", to put a stop to someone else trying it.
"When plastic burns, it releases a cocktail of harmful chemicals into the air.
These include dioxins, furans, mercury, and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs).
Dioxins, in particular, are known carcinogens and can cause reproductive and
developmental problems, damage the immune system, and interfere with hormones."
There is a difference between filtering a truly trace chemical, and buckets of bad stuff coming out the bottom of the rig.
This is what happens when the consumption method is not at a high enough temperature. Raising the temperature of the process, increases the
price per ton, of the processing. But humans will "try to burn that shit
with gasoline", and even with a pure oxygen supply for help (dangerous),
the temperature of the output reactants is too low. Only a few combustive
gas mixtures, give relatively high output temperatures, and usually involve relatively tiny molecules. It's possible an acceptable combustion process needs three times that temperature, a plasma of some kind maybe. You can't get there with combustion, it's going to take something a lot more whizzy (and energy consumptive).
The Sun would make a good garbage bucket. But you'd have to find an article that analyzes the consequences (other than the cost per ton of launching garbage).
A fusion reactor gets nice and warm. The ignition facility (NIF) in the States
used for fusion research, the target zone there gets nice and warm, but
this is hardly cheap kit to be burning garbage. In the fusion reactor,
you're ruin the containment walls, with discarded tomato sandwich splatter :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility#/media/File:NIF_target_chamber_2.jpg
There are continuing comments in the local news, about "solving our garbage problem by burning it". I was born in a city that did this, burned garbage
in a relatively low temperature incinerator. I've been to that incinerator
in a pickup truck. The tailgate fell off our truck, into the pit which buffers
the garbage fed into the incinerator. It's 200 feet down. There is a ladder on
the side of the pit, covered in slime, for you to climb down :-) Well, the crane operator at the pit was a champ. He picked up our tailgate with the bucket scoop jaws, pulled it up the two hundred feet, and deposited it
on the ground next to the offload area. It was "only a little bit bent".
That incinerator used to shower us in soot and fallen debris. Any washing outside, would get covered in debris and need to be washed again. It all depended on the wind direction, as to who got the "output".
They don't do that any more. But I bet the politicians reminisce about
how "successful" that operation was. Today, there is a lawn over top of everything that went on there, and methane vent pipes on the premises.
That garbage today, is like most cities, driven out of town on 40 foot trailers
and such.
Today, a new town dump costs about $500,000,000 to build, and has a
liner in the bottom to collect toxic fluids. That figure, is what
stokes all this interest in combustion :-)
On Sat, 12/20/2025 7:32 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
For some reason, I was using at my fifties some boots that were bought
when I was a teenager. Size was correct, soles had their crests and valleys,
not much used, but little actual grip. I finally threw them away.
About then or earlier I bough some good boots for mountain sports. I think >> I actually used them 4 times over the years, but the last time, the sole
got unglued from the rest of the boot, on both boots, like a gaping mouth, >> at the start of the trek. The boots were not even ten years old, maybe 6. >> The rubber was still soft, but the boots were garbage material. Fault of
the glue, or one intermediate layer that decomposed.
These things don't happen by accident by the way. It's "designed" to
fail at four years. Someone is crass enough, to figure out the
interval at which "consumers will accept a defect".
On 2025-12-20 18:14, Paul wrote:
On Sat, 12/20/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven with filters for toxic fumes.
An entrepreneur tried this and eventually gave up.
The process was not clean enough to be used, without consequences.
Any of the chemists I graduated with, could have told this person it won't work.
It might have been something like dioxin. There was never a "final report" >> or "lessons learned", to put a stop to someone else trying it.
Well, there are countries doing it, and they claim to be happy about it. Switzerland, for instance.
"When plastic burns, it releases a cocktail of harmful chemicals into the air.
These include dioxins, furans, mercury, and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs).
Dioxins, in particular, are known carcinogens and can cause reproductive and
developmental problems, damage the immune system, and interfere with hormones."
There is a difference between filtering a truly trace chemical, and buckets >> of bad stuff coming out the bottom of the rig.
This is what happens when the consumption method is not at a high enough
temperature. Raising the temperature of the process, increases the
price per ton, of the processing. But humans will "try to burn that shit
with gasoline", and even with a pure oxygen supply for help (dangerous),
the temperature of the output reactants is too low. Only a few combustive
gas mixtures, give relatively high output temperatures, and usually involve >> relatively tiny molecules. It's possible an acceptable combustion process
needs three times that temperature, a plasma of some kind maybe. You can't >> get there with combustion, it's going to take something a lot more whizzy
(and energy consumptive).
The Sun would make a good garbage bucket. But you'd have to find an article >> that analyzes the consequences (other than the cost per ton of launching
garbage).
A fusion reactor gets nice and warm. The ignition facility (NIF) in the States
used for fusion research, the target zone there gets nice and warm, but
this is hardly cheap kit to be burning garbage. In the fusion reactor,
you're ruin the containment walls, with discarded tomato sandwich splatter :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility#/media/File:NIF_target_chamber_2.jpg
There are continuing comments in the local news, about "solving our garbage >> problem by burning it". I was born in a city that did this, burned garbage >> in a relatively low temperature incinerator. I've been to that incinerator >> in a pickup truck. The tailgate fell off our truck, into the pit which buffers
the garbage fed into the incinerator. It's 200 feet down. There is a ladder on
the side of the pit, covered in slime, for you to climb down :-) Well, the >> crane operator at the pit was a champ. He picked up our tailgate with the
bucket scoop jaws, pulled it up the two hundred feet, and deposited it
on the ground next to the offload area. It was "only a little bit bent".
That incinerator used to shower us in soot and fallen debris. Any washing
outside, would get covered in debris and need to be washed again. It all
depended on the wind direction, as to who got the "output".
They don't do that any more. But I bet the politicians reminisce about
how "successful" that operation was. Today, there is a lawn over top of
everything that went on there, and methane vent pipes on the premises.
That garbage today, is like most cities, driven out of town on 40 foot trailers
and such.
Today, a new town dump costs about $500,000,000 to build, and has a
liner in the bottom to collect toxic fluids. That figure, is what
stokes all this interest in combustion :-)
I agree with you, but some people tell me that the EU sanctioned way is an incinerator.
On Sat, 12/20/2025 1:46 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-20 18:14, Paul wrote:
On Sat, 12/20/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I agree with you, but some people tell me that the EU sanctioned way is an incinerator.
The article here, goes into the detail of all the steps to control the output.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration
The thing someone was working on here, was some sort of sealed method, so
it didn't involve large volumes of materials moving though a plant. the steps in the Wikipedia description would require a fairly large building to do the work.
Even the crude incinerator we used to have, which had the fly ash problem,
it was a rather large facility. You couldn't see the incineration part, as
it was up closer to where the crane operator lived. The waste was lifted up maybe a hundred feet (above grade) and deposited out of eyesight. The pit went
down two hundred feet below grade. (The garbage trucks could dump directly
at the pit edge.) The incinerator had a stack, but the "fallout" from the tall stack, meant the bit that did not fall right at the
incineration stack... fell at our house.
I doubt that incinerator, had any of the refinements from the Wikipedia article.
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven
with filters for toxic fumes.
I don't think you can get anything ELSE these days in USA. It's
ALWAYS that hard little sub-tire in a compartment in the trunk/boot.
It's so stiff you can't even tell if it's got pressure ... and really
that BARELY matters. They OUGHT to just make them full of urea foam
... always 'inflated'.
My current car doesn't even have one. It has a can of some liquid which
you put inside the deflated tire with the air pump. I got a screw into
my front left wheel (I did not see it), tried the kit, the wheel
deflated again in half an hour. In the end I called the RACE (Royal Automobile Club of Spain). A crane came, the chap found the screw,
marked the spot, removed it, and pushed with an awl a thread of soft
rubber into the hole. That allowed me to complete the trip, and had the
wheel properly repaired.
About then or earlier I bough some good boots for mountain sports. I
think I actually used them 4 times over the years, but the last time,
the sole got unglued from the rest of the boot, on both boots, like a
gaping mouth, at the start of the trek. The boots were not even ten
years old, maybe 6. The rubber was still soft, but the boots were
garbage material. Fault of the glue, or one intermediate layer that decomposed.
Back in the '60s I heard someone mention that he had bought Timex
watches for each of his three sons. All three lasted the 12-month
warranty period, but not one made it to 13 months. Looks like the
engineers got that one pretty well figured out.
Like you, it was an old pair of boots, which hadn't be used for many
years (while the kids were growing up) and yes, they also were 'cheap'
boots.
I agree with you, but some people tell me that the EU sanctioned way is
an incinerator.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 20:45:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Back in the '60s I heard someone mention that he had bought Timex
watches for each of his three sons. All three lasted the 12-month
warranty period, but not one made it to 13 months. Looks like the
engineers got that one pretty well figured out.
I've been wearing a fitness tracker for a couple of years but my old Timex Expedition took a licking and kept on ticking. It's a little scarred but it's still keeping time. No complaints. The Zulu band is bulletproof too.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 22:28:38 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around
for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump filling
the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the
mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
That's it in a nutshell. They thought they were dealing with a strip mine
or basically a big hole in the ground that was filled with garbage and burning it was a good idea. They didn't realize the garbage was covering
the entrance to a labyrinth of underground coal mines.
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and space to
be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer structures his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always trying to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality. Never the other
way around...
On 12/20/25 05:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and space
to be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer structures
his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always trying
to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality. Never the
other way around...
Is there any reason to think time, as generally viewed,
applies in dimensions 4-10 ???
There are a few "instantaneous" QM-related events, like
the resolution of entanglement. Doesn't matter if the
particles are across the universe - ZAP ! - so for those
kinds of events 'time' really doesn't exist.
Hmm ... maybe "as generally viewed" doesn't even apply
to dimensions 1-3 either. Consider the possibility that
time actually lurches back and forth rapidly, seconds,
days, aeons maybe, and only AVERAGES "ahead". Everything,
MAYbe the same, over and over and over. How would we know ? :-)
Oh, also worry about merging black holes. The closer you
get to the event horizon the slower time becomes, until
it's zero. The things shouldn't be able to EVER merge.
Yet, we get gravity-wave confirmations ...
On 2025-12-20 05:48, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 22:28:38 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for
many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around >>>>> for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump filling
the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the
mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
That's it in a nutshell. They thought they were dealing with a strip mine
or basically a big hole in the ground that was filled with garbage and
burning it was a good idea. They didn't realize the garbage was covering
the entrance to a labyrinth of underground coal mines.
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven
with filters for toxic fumes.
Setting fire to garbage was illegal in the first place so they messed
around trying to cover their tracks and kept getting deeper and deeper in
shit. The miners followed coal veins so it was a real labyrinth.
https://storyofbutte.org/files/show/5725
Butte was copper mines but the whole town is sort of sitting on an ant
hill. There is a museum there that has so 3D models that were prepared
for
lawsuits that are really impressive. The suits occurred when Company A
following a vein broke through into Company B's tunnels. I have no idea
how they even knew where they were.
Butte has the opposite problem to a mine fire. When they switched to an
open pit and turned off the pumps in the underground mine tunnels the
whole mess filled with highly toxic water.
So they can not drain that toxic water. :-(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
“A protozoan species, Euglena mutabilis, was found to reside in the pit
by Andrea A. Stierle and Donald B. Stierle, and the protozoans have been found to have adapted to the harsh conditions of the water. Intense competition for the limited resources caused these species to evolve the production of highly toxic compounds to improve survivability. Natural products such as berkeleydione, berkeleytrione,[18] and berkelic
acid[19] have been isolated from these organisms which show selective activity against cancer cell lines. Some of these species ingest metals
and are being investigated as an alternative means of cleaning the water.[20]”
Wow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
One of their storylines (from the '60's) was about a group of people
that fell through the crust over an old, burnt out rubbish dump that had smouldered away over the years and left behind a great chasm that some
people had fallen into and needed rescuing from!!
Ah!! There you go!! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0766145/?ref_=ttep_ep_2
On 21/12/2025 19:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 05:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:It's just that people cannot get out of the habit of thinking that no
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and space
to be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer structures
his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always trying
to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality. Never the
other way around...
Is there any reason to think time, as generally viewed,
applies in dimensions 4-10 ???
matter how weird quantum equations are, the 'normal' world of human experience is the 'real world' and the quantum world is 'imaginary'...
...But what if it was the other way around?
There is no spoon ? :-)There are a few "instantaneous" QM-related events, likeI think you are beginning to see the problem.
the resolution of entanglement. Doesn't matter if the
particles are across the universe - ZAP ! - so for those
kinds of events 'time' really doesn't exist.
Hmm ... maybe "as generally viewed" doesn't even apply
to dimensions 1-3 either. Consider the possibility that
time actually lurches back and forth rapidly, seconds,
days, aeons maybe, and only AVERAGES "ahead". Everything,
MAYbe the same, over and over and over. How would we know ? :-)
Time organises data into causes and effects, but at a quantum level its
hard to say what causes effects.
If indeed *anything* does... Time and space may simply be a *transform*
of what is more easily understood as entanglememt, into 'our way of
looking at stuff'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
Yep, they delayed The Problem. Likely will NEVER have the money to
actually deal with it.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 15:24:48 -0500, c186282 wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
Yep, they delayed The Problem. Likely will NEVER have the money to
actually deal with it.
https://clarkforkrivercleanup.org/cleanup-history
The Berkeley Pit is only part of the problem. The state's suit against
ARCO was a classic. ARCO's position was 'We only bought the assets, not
the liabilities'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Smelter_Stack
The rest of the story is Anaconda bought the land downwind of the stack
where the fumes were killing everything. Even today there isn't much
besides a few stunted trees. Probably not a good place to camp.
For real creativity, build a golf course on the toxic waste.
https://nicklausdesign.com/course/oldworks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milltown_Reservoir_Superfund_Site
There were a lot of nervous people in '96 when it was thought the dam
might go. They don't mention the pickerel :) There used to be a annual Pickerel Derby at the reservoir. Before the dam was removed they poisoned
the reservoir, not wanting to release a bunch of voracious fish.
The downstream fishing access sites used to have signs saying not to eat
the fish too frequently and to not eat the pike at all. The signs have
been revised to not eat any of the fish. The settling ponds at the
abandoned pulp mill are starting to leak into the river. Yet another clean up. Smurfit-Stone filed Chapter 11 in 2009 so good luck getting blood out
of that turnip.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 20:45:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Back in the '60s I heard someone mention that he had bought Timex
watches for each of his three sons. All three lasted the 12-month
warranty period, but not one made it to 13 months. Looks like the
engineers got that one pretty well figured out.
I've been wearing a fitness tracker for a couple of years but my old Timex Expedition took a licking and kept on ticking. It's a little scarred but it's still keeping time. No complaints. The Zulu band is bulletproof too.
What are you proposing? Onerous regulation of the toxin producers?
On 12/21/25 15:10, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 15:24:48 -0500, c186282 wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
Yep, they delayed The Problem. Likely will NEVER have the money to >>> actually deal with it.
https://clarkforkrivercleanup.org/cleanup-history
The Berkeley Pit is only part of the problem. The state's suit against
ARCO was a classic. ARCO's position was 'We only bought the assets, not
the liabilities'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Smelter_Stack
The rest of the story is Anaconda bought the land downwind of the stack
where the fumes were killing everything. Even today there isn't much
besides a few stunted trees. Probably not a good place to camp.
For real creativity, build a golf course on the toxic waste.
https://nicklausdesign.com/course/oldworks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milltown_Reservoir_Superfund_Site
There were a lot of nervous people in '96 when it was thought the dam
might go. They don't mention the pickerel :) There used to be a annual
Pickerel Derby at the reservoir. Before the dam was removed they poisoned
the reservoir, not wanting to release a bunch of voracious fish.
The downstream fishing access sites used to have signs saying not to eat
the fish too frequently and to not eat the pike at all. The signs have
been revised to not eat any of the fish. The settling ponds at the
abandoned pulp mill are starting to leak into the river. Yet another
clean
up. Smurfit-Stone filed Chapter 11 in 2009 so good luck getting blood out
of that turnip.
What are you proposing? Onerous regulation of the toxin producers?
Wow.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 15:34:56 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
What are you proposing? Onerous regulation of the toxin producers?
https://miningconnection.com/surface/news/article/ montana_gov._gianforte_tours_barricks_golden_sunlight_mine
We'll see how that works out. Somebody had Barrick by the balls. The usual case is the toxin producers grabbed the money and ran.
I do hav a problem with corporations privatizing the profits and
socializing the costs whether it's leaving an environmental disaster in
their wake, Walmart depending on food stamps to keep their part time 'associates' fed, or moving jobs overseas while raking in money from the
US.
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-20 05:48, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 22:28:38 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for >>>>>> many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around >>>>>> for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump filling >>>> the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the
mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
That's it in a nutshell. They thought they were dealing with a strip
mine
or basically a big hole in the ground that was filled with garbage and
burning it was a good idea. They didn't realize the garbage was covering >>> the entrance to a labyrinth of underground coal mines.
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven
with filters for toxic fumes.
Massive energy expended doing that. You'd need natural
gas, likely burnt under pressure to make it even hotter.
Then ... HOW many "filters" or how many kinds do you go
through in a week, maybe a day ?
So, instead, they just bury it.
Setting fire to garbage was illegal in the first place so they messed
around trying to cover their tracks and kept getting deeper and
deeper in
shit. The miners followed coal veins so it was a real labyrinth.
https://storyofbutte.org/files/show/5725
Butte was copper mines but the whole town is sort of sitting on an ant
hill. There is a museum there that has so 3D models that were
prepared for
lawsuits that are really impressive. The suits occurred when Company A
following a vein broke through into Company B's tunnels. I have no idea
how they even knew where they were.
Butte has the opposite problem to a mine fire. When they switched to an
open pit and turned off the pumps in the underground mine tunnels the
whole mess filled with highly toxic water.
So they can not drain that toxic water. :-(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
Yep, they delayed The Problem. Likely will NEVER have
the money to actually deal with it.
“A protozoan species, Euglena mutabilis, was found to reside in the
pit by Andrea A. Stierle and Donald B. Stierle, and the protozoans
have been found to have adapted to the harsh conditions of the water.
Intense competition for the limited resources caused these species to
evolve the production of highly toxic compounds to improve
survivability. Natural products such as berkeleydione,
berkeleytrione,[18] and berkelic acid[19] have been isolated from
these organisms which show selective activity against cancer cell
lines. Some of these species ingest metals and are being investigated
as an alternative means of cleaning the water.[20]”
Wow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment.
However just because they can 'eat' compounds does not
mean the ultimate products, or poop, aren't still toxic
as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL
issues. However that stuff DOES travel and winds up
everywhere. Not necessarily so much in a year ... but
20, 50, 100+ years ? "Chemical industries" started in
the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air.
More and more every year. Some VERY creative catalytic
compounds and engineered biologicals are going to be
required to render that stuff 'safe' - and it'll take
another century or two. What does it do to us and lots
of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all
away for us ... right ?
On 12/20/25 05:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and space
to be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer structures
his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always trying
to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality. Never the
other way around...
Is there any reason to think time, as generally viewed,
applies in dimensions 4-10 ???
There are a few "instantaneous" QM-related events, like
the resolution of entanglement. Doesn't matter if the
particles are across the universe - ZAP ! - so for those
kinds of events 'time' really doesn't exist.
Hmm ... maybe "as generally viewed" doesn't even apply
to dimensions 1-3 either. Consider the possibility that
time actually lurches back and forth rapidly, seconds,
days, aeons maybe, and only AVERAGES "ahead". Everything,
MAYbe the same, over and over and over. How would we know ? :-)
Oh, also worry about merging black holes. The closer you
get to the event horizon the slower time becomes, until
it's zero. The things shouldn't be able to EVER merge.
Yet, we get gravity-wave confirmations ...
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don't just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way into The Sun.
On 2025-12-20 05:48, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 22:28:38 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-19 03:01, rbowman wrote:release-100-
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 22:46:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I have not heard of root fire in my country. Peat fire going on for >>>>>>> many months, yes. Rekindling a forest fire, yes. Crews remain around >>>>>>> for some time after the fire is put out.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/03/underground-zombie-peat-fires-
times-the-carbon-of-wildfires/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
Let me see if I understood. The city set fire to a garbage dump
filling
the huge hole of an old open air mine, and the fire propagated to the >>>>> mine, which happened to be a coal mine?
That's it in a nutshell. They thought they were dealing with a strip
mine
or basically a big hole in the ground that was filled with garbage and >>>> burning it was a good idea. They didn't realize the garbage was
covering
the entrance to a labyrinth of underground coal mines.
Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven
with filters for toxic fumes.
Massive energy expended doing that. You'd need natural
gas, likely burnt under pressure to make it even hotter.
Then ... HOW many "filters" or how many kinds do you go
through in a week, maybe a day ?
So, instead, they just bury it.
Setting fire to garbage was illegal in the first place so they messed
around trying to cover their tracks and kept getting deeper and
deeper in
shit. The miners followed coal veins so it was a real labyrinth.
https://storyofbutte.org/files/show/5725
Butte was copper mines but the whole town is sort of sitting on an ant >>>> hill. There is a museum there that has so 3D models that were
prepared for
lawsuits that are really impressive. The suits occurred when Company A >>>> following a vein broke through into Company B's tunnels. I have no idea >>>> how they even knew where they were.
Butte has the opposite problem to a mine fire. When they switched to an >>>> open pit and turned off the pumps in the underground mine tunnels the
whole mess filled with highly toxic water.
So they can not drain that toxic water. :-(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Pit
Yep, they delayed The Problem. Likely will NEVER have
the money to actually deal with it.
“A protozoan species, Euglena mutabilis, was found to reside in the
pit by Andrea A. Stierle and Donald B. Stierle, and the protozoans
have been found to have adapted to the harsh conditions of the water.
Intense competition for the limited resources caused these species to
evolve the production of highly toxic compounds to improve
survivability. Natural products such as berkeleydione,
berkeleytrione,[18] and berkelic acid[19] have been isolated from
these organisms which show selective activity against cancer cell
lines. Some of these species ingest metals and are being investigated
as an alternative means of cleaning the water.[20]”
Wow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment.
However just because they can 'eat' compounds does not
mean the ultimate products, or poop, aren't still toxic
as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL
issues. However that stuff DOES travel and winds up
everywhere. Not necessarily so much in a year ... but
20, 50, 100+ years ? "Chemical industries" started in
the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air.
More and more every year. Some VERY creative catalytic
compounds and engineered biologicals are going to be
required to render that stuff 'safe' - and it'll take
another century or two. What does it do to us and lots
of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all
away for us ... right ?
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
On 12/21/25 15:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/12/2025 19:49, c186282 wrote:There is no spoon ? :-)
On 12/20/25 05:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:It's just that people cannot get out of the habit of thinking that no
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and
space to be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer
structures his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always trying
to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality. Never the
other way around...
Is there any reason to think time, as generally viewed,
applies in dimensions 4-10 ???
matter how weird quantum equations are, the 'normal' world of human
experience is the 'real world' and the quantum world is 'imaginary'...
...But what if it was the other way around?
There are a few "instantaneous" QM-related events, likeI think you are beginning to see the problem.
the resolution of entanglement. Doesn't matter if the
particles are across the universe - ZAP ! - so for those
kinds of events 'time' really doesn't exist.
Hmm ... maybe "as generally viewed" doesn't even apply
to dimensions 1-3 either. Consider the possibility that
time actually lurches back and forth rapidly, seconds,
days, aeons maybe, and only AVERAGES "ahead". Everything,
MAYbe the same, over and over and over. How would we know ? :-)
Time organises data into causes and effects, but at a quantum level
its hard to say what causes effects.
If indeed *anything* does... Time and space may simply be a
*transform* of what is more easily understood as entanglememt, into
'our way of looking at stuff'
"Our way of looking at stuff" SERVES, well, nearly
a billion years.
There is no time.:-)
On 21/12/2025 21:39, c186282 wrote:
On 12/21/25 15:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/12/2025 19:49, c186282 wrote:There is no spoon ? :-)
On 12/20/25 05:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:It's just that people cannot get out of the habit of thinking that no
On 20/12/2025 06:32, c186282 wrote:
Time is just an illusion of stupid little 3-D players.
Which is an interesting philosophical position.
Most of the quantum problems arise because we consider time and
space to be absolutes, rather than simply a way a local observer
structures his perception of the world.
No matter what advanced maths e.g. Penrose does, he is always
trying to express quantum physics in terms of classical reality.
Never the other way around...
Is there any reason to think time, as generally viewed,
applies in dimensions 4-10 ???
matter how weird quantum equations are, the 'normal' world of human
experience is the 'real world' and the quantum world is 'imaginary'...
...But what if it was the other way around?
There are a few "instantaneous" QM-related events, likeI think you are beginning to see the problem.
the resolution of entanglement. Doesn't matter if the
particles are across the universe - ZAP ! - so for those
kinds of events 'time' really doesn't exist.
Hmm ... maybe "as generally viewed" doesn't even apply
to dimensions 1-3 either. Consider the possibility that
time actually lurches back and forth rapidly, seconds,
days, aeons maybe, and only AVERAGES "ahead". Everything,
MAYbe the same, over and over and over. How would we know ? :-)
Time organises data into causes and effects, but at a quantum level
its hard to say what causes effects.
If indeed *anything* does... Time and space may simply be a
*transform* of what is more easily understood as entanglememt, into
'our way of looking at stuff'
"Our way of looking at stuff" SERVES, well, nearly
a billion years.
There is no time :-)
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST be somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST beFunny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general
direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for garbage disposal. "Orbit".
Paul
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST be somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-
falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
On 23/12/2025 11:40, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general
direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let >>> it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image
for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for garbage disposal. "Orbit".
I prefer the method used by Bill, the Galactic Hero, who used free government postage and the Galactic Census to mail it to far flung
corners of the galaxy where they don't have any stuff at all.
He crucified Heinlein with that one....
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST beFunny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general
direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for garbage disposal. "Orbit".
Paul
On 23/12/2025 11:40, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST be >>> somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don't
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general
direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let >>> it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image
for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for
garbage disposal. "Orbit".
Paul
I prefer the method used by Bill, the Galactic Hero, who used free government postage and the Galactic Census to mail it to far flung
corners of the galaxy where they don't have any stuff at all.
He crucified Heinlein with that one....
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST beFunny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general
direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for garbage disposal. "Orbit".
On 23/12/2025 10:40 pm, Paul wrote:[...]
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.The problem I see with that is that one day WE will inhabit some of
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image
for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg
?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for
garbage disposal. "Orbit".
the Moons of Jupiter and I wouldn't want our 'NOW' Garbage to be there waiting for us.
The problem I see with that is that one day WE will inhabit some of the Moons of Jupiter and I wouldn't want our 'NOW' Garbage to be there
waiting for us.
On 23/12/2025 11:41 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2025 11:40, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 12/23/2025 5:31 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Voyager 1 was launched Sept 5, 1977 and is the only man made craft toYes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocketFunny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don't >>>>>> just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way >>>>>> into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings >>>>>> perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
MUST be
somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece. >>>>
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general >>>> direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just
let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
Apparently, the garbage-to-Sun trajectory isn't all that easy.
Jupiter might be an easier target.
Once you're out of the gravity well, it does not matter where
the garbage goes, right ? The cloud cover over Jupiter, will hide
all the beer cans and Glad Garbage Bags.
And a lot of research work has already gone into this. From 1969.
"Winnipeg Tribune photographer Frank Chalmers set up this image
for the newspaper in November 1969."
https://i.cbc.ca/ais/1.5725255,1600527189000/full/max/0/default.jpg?im=Crop%2Crect%3D%280%2C17%2C620%2C348%29%3BResize%3D1280
You can see they've carefully considered the optimal design for
garbage disposal. "Orbit".
Paul
I prefer the method used by Bill, the Galactic Hero, who used free
government postage and the Galactic Census to mail it to far flung
corners of the galaxy where they don't have any stuff at all.
He crucified Heinlein with that one....
have (almost??) left Our Solar System, so good luck with getting
anything to the other side of Our Galaxy.
Actually, Mars looks like a real dump already, so ...
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 20:45:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:I have a Casio digital watch that I don't even know how old it is, but
Back in the '60s I heard someone mention that he had bought Timex
watches for each of his three sons. All three lasted the 12-month
warranty period, but not one made it to 13 months. Looks like the
engineers got that one pretty well figured out.
I've been wearing a fitness tracker for a couple of years but my old Timex >> Expedition took a licking and kept on ticking. It's a little scarred but
it's still keeping time. No complaints. The Zulu band is bulletproof too. >>
it's at least 45-50 years at a guess. The buttons have gotten stiff over
the years, so the functions like stopwatch and lap timer don't work well
any more, but it does just exactly what I need from a quick glance at my wrist: it tells me the day of the week, the date, and time of day.
And I have only had to replace the battery about 4 times in all those
years.
On 22/12/2025 11:35 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/22/25 05:46, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/12/2025 7:24 am, c186282 wrote:
On 12/20/25 07:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, sure, but they are 'precision' type missions ... The rocket MUST be >somewhere at a precise time and make it back (hopefully) in one piece.Funny you should conclude like that. I've wondered why 'they' don'tWow, they even gave names to peculiar compounds in there.
There are orgs that can live in almost any environment. However
just because they can 'eat' compounds does not mean the ultimate
products, or poop, aren't still toxic as all hell to humans.
We LIKE to think of 'chemical contamination' as LOCAL issues.
However that stuff DOES travel and winds up everywhere. Not
necessarily so much in a year ... but 20, 50, 100+ years ?
"Chemical industries" started in the early 1800s by and large.
It's on the land, it's in the sea, it's in the air. More and more
every year. Some VERY creative catalytic compounds and engineered
biologicals are going to be required to render that stuff 'safe'
- and it'll take another century or two. What does it do to us
and lots of other life in the meanwhile ?
Oh well, the space aliens will surely beam it all away for us ...
right ?
just load all this stuff into rockets and send it on its merry way
into The Sun.
Sure, rocket launches do, occasionally, stuff up but then nothings
perfect!! i.e. Chernobyl disaster!!
https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/
$2700 per pound into low earth orbit on a Falcon-9
$70,000 on a NASA rocket.
A 'one way' mission to the Sun .... just sort of aim it in the general >direction and (once it's got, what, a quarter of the way there) just let
it (via Gravity) fall into The Sun. Job done.
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