I'm no Marxist chum
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 18:05:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm no Marxist chum
Do you benefit from a Socialist-style state-funded health service?
That would be considered “Marxist” in certain quarters ...
On 2025-12-18 8:22 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 18:05:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm no Marxist chum
Do you benefit from a Socialist-style state-funded health service?
That would be considered “Marxist” in certain quarters ...
We have a Socialist-style state-funded health service here in Canada and
it is so successful that the government happily offers medical
assistance in dying because most people would rather die.
Glenn Beck just paid to have a Canadian woman fly to the US to get
surgery for her rare thyroid issue. The Canadian system failed her so miserably that she had chosen to die. <https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/saskatchewan-jolene-van-alstine-maid>
That's the only thing socialism does: fail miserably wherever and
however it is applied.
On 19/12/2025 01:45, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-12-18 8:22 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:Well no it doesn't.
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 18:05:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm no Marxist chum
Do you benefit from a Socialist-style state-funded health service?
That would be considered “Marxist” in certain quarters ...
We have a Socialist-style state-funded health service here in Canada
and it is so successful that the government happily offers medical
assistance in dying because most people would rather die.
Glenn Beck just paid to have a Canadian woman fly to the US to get
surgery for her rare thyroid issue. The Canadian system failed her so
miserably that she had chosen to die. <https://nationalpost.com/news/
canada/saskatchewan-jolene-van-alstine-maid>
That's the only thing socialism does: fail miserably wherever and
however it is applied.
If a funded-through-general-tax health service is defined as socialism.
Sure you can always pay for special treatment and a new unique way to
die of medical intervention, but you only need to look at the data of
say the USA versus European health care to see which is better value for money and more likely to prolong life.
Socialism is an ideology created by Satan to enrich his followers at the expense of everyone else. Anyone who supports it is a complete and utter moron.Ah, Another 'Honk for Jesus' fruitcake...
On 19/12/2025 14:11, CrudeSausage wrote:
Socialism is an ideology created by Satan to enrich his followers atAh, Another 'Honk for Jesus' fruitcake...
the expense of everyone else. Anyone who supports it is a complete and
utter moron.
On 2025-12-19 10:02 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/12/2025 14:11, CrudeSausage wrote:
Socialism is an ideology created by Satan to enrich his followers at
the expense of everyone else. Anyone who supports it is a complete
and utter moron.
Ah, Another 'Honk for Jesus' fruitcake...
Remember you said this when you get to your destination.
Socialism is an ideology created by Satan to enrich his followers
at the expense of everyone else. Anyone who supports it is a
complete and utter moron.
Ah, Another 'Honk for Jesus' fruitcake...
On 2025-12-19 10:02 a.m., The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/12/2025 14:11, CrudeSausage wrote:
Socialism is an ideology created by Satan to enrich his followers atAh, Another 'Honk for Jesus' fruitcake...
the expense of everyone else. Anyone who supports it is a complete
and utter moron.
Remember you said this when you get to your destination.
On 2025-12-18 8:22 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 18:05:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm no Marxist chum
Do you benefit from a Socialist-style state-funded health service?
That would be considered “Marxist” in certain quarters ...
We have a Socialist-style state-funded health service here in Canada and
it is so successful that the government happily offers medical
assistance in dying because most people would rather die.
Glenn Beck just paid to have a Canadian woman fly to the US to get
surgery for her rare thyroid issue. The Canadian system failed her so miserably that she had chosen to die. <https://nationalpost.com/news/ canada/saskatchewan-jolene-van-alstine-maid>
That's the only thing socialism does: fail miserably wherever and
however it is applied.
Like having Ozempic for free?
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
On 2025-12-20 06:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
But of course, there are taxes, which are put to good purposes. Some
people can afford to pay, some can't, yet they have access to expensive medicines and treatments that they can not pay.
On 2025-12-20 11:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
Ozempic is prescribed for diabetes. But it was just an example of an expensive treatment, there are others.
And obesity exist for many reasons.
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
Ozempic is prescribed for diabetes. But it was just an example of an expensive treatment, there are others.
And obesity exist for many reasons.
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
On 2025-12-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
"One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small..."
It's a good growth industry for Big Pharma, anyway.
When I was young, I was a scrawny kid. As a young geek, sleeping
irregular hours, working 11 to 20:30 and eating at random times, I was
still scrawny. After I got married, I started to slowly gain weight;
but I was still pretty active, so it was slow. After my divorce,
I was depressed, and much less active, and eventually reached 270
pounds. With a medically supervised calorie reduction program, I made it
back to 195 pounds, but it was not a sustainable diet, and after I
remarried, it crept back up to 230 lbs. With what I considered strict >discipline, I made it down to 205, but was stuck oscilating between 205
and 215.
Zepbound has been a revelation for me. I pay USD 500/month direct from >EliLilly with monthly monitoring appointments with my doctor.
On 2025-12-19 02:45, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-12-18 8:22 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 18:05:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm no Marxist chum
Do you benefit from a Socialist-style state-funded health service?
That would be considered “Marxist” in certain quarters ...
We have a Socialist-style state-funded health service here in Canada
and it is so successful that the government happily offers medical
assistance in dying because most people would rather die.
Glenn Beck just paid to have a Canadian woman fly to the US to get
surgery for her rare thyroid issue. The Canadian system failed her so
miserably that she had chosen to die. <https://nationalpost.com/news/
canada/saskatchewan-jolene-van-alstine-maid>
That's the only thing socialism does: fail miserably wherever and
however it is applied.
Like having Ozempic for free?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 20:45:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-12-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
"One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small..."
It's a good growth industry for Big Pharma, anyway.
So, the two pills manage to move a large thing to a smaller thing...which makes it a large thing... For how long?
It's a good growth industry for Big Pharma, anyway.
On 20/12/2025 22:02, Sump wrote:
In the case of the original story about 6 hours.
So, the two pills manage to move a large thing to a smaller thing...which makes it a large thing... For how long?
That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
health services.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 01:56:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2025 22:02, Sump wrote:
In the case of the original story about 6 hours.
So, the two pills manage to move a large thing to a smaller thing...which makes it a large thing... For how long?
So a pillar of the community?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 20:45:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
It's a good growth industry for Big Pharma, anyway.
As I see it, Big Pharma sells 3 kinds of products:
1) Cures for diseases
2) Disease preventives (vaccines etc)
3) Treatments for conditions that are not cures, but require ongoing
application for a lifetime
Which do you think is the most profitable for them? Clearly its 3), >particularly if the condition involved is one that primarily afflicts >affluent first-world patients. Those good old erectile dysfunction
pills, as well as these weight-loss ones, clearly fit into that
category.
Which is the *least* profitable? Obviously its 2). Something to think
about the next time somebody tries to convince you of some kind of
vaccine conspiracy ...
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
health services.
But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
everything that America Stands For??!??
I am aware that diabetes is also genetic, but those people aren't the
ones the people behind Ozempic are selling to anymore.
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
On 2025-12-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2025 05:56, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 21:56:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Like having Ozempic for free?
TANSTAAFL
Yes. Obesity exists because of the way food is produced and marketed.
And lifestyles in a post industrial age are sedentary
Throwing Ozemopic on top of that is a bit of an unkown.
"One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small..."
It's a good growth industry for Big Pharma, anyway.
Which is the *least* profitable? Obviously it’s 2). Something to think about the next time somebody tries to convince you of some kind of
“vaccine conspiracy” ...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Which is the *least* profitable? Obviously it’s 2). Something to think
about the next time somebody tries to convince you of some kind of
“vaccine conspiracy” ...
The vaccine business certainly didn't hurt Pfizer's bottom line. The
patents on their three cash cows, Viagra, Zoloft, and Lipitor had expired, the last, Viagra, in 2020. Their Alzheimer's drug was a dry hole and they folded the research department.
As for Lipitor, the fascination with statins lines more pockets than Pfizer's. My doctor is a bit of a cynic and says the checklist she has to
use for Medicare somehow always comes out 'you need statins'.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 08:33:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I am aware that diabetes is also genetic, but those people aren't the
ones the people behind Ozempic are selling to anymore.
Technically using Ozempic strictly for weight loss is off label. It is a medication for Type 2 diabetes.
Wegovy is the same shit in a higher dosage and is used to treat obesity.
The catch is the former is covered by most insurance plans, the latter
isn't. Can you see the potential for abuse?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
health services.
But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
everything that America Stands For??!??
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That alone makes it way better than privately insured and
delivered. health services.
But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be
better than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go
against everything that America Stands For??!??
Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run by doctors
and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and hospitals but doesn't
"run" them.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
>> health services.
>
> But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
> than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
> everything that America Stands For??!??
Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run
by doctors and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and
hospitals but doesn't "run" them.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 02:17:00 -0000 (UTC), Bob Tennent wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That alone makes it way better than privately insured and
delivered. health services.
But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be
better than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go
against everything that America Stands For??!??
Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run by doctors
and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and hospitals but doesn't
"run" them.
What do Americans do differently, then?
On 12/21/25 21:17, Bob Tennent wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
>> health services.
>
> But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
> than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
> everything that America Stands For??!??
Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run
by doctors and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and
hospitals but doesn't "run" them.
Still doesn't do much good though ... subsidizing
incompetence doesn't IMPROVE things.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 01:54:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:
> On 12/21/25 21:17, Bob Tennent wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> >
>> >> That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
>> >> health services.
>> >
>> > But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
>> > than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
>> > everything that America Stands For??!??
>>
>> Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run
>> by doctors and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and
>> hospitals but doesn't "run" them.
>
> Still doesn't do much good though ... subsidizing
> incompetence doesn't IMPROVE things.
American health costs are higher than anywhere in the world
because of insurance administration. Yet outcomes are worse.
Doesn't sound like incompetence to me.
On 12/22/25 07:57, Bob Tennent wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 01:54:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:
> On 12/21/25 21:17, Bob Tennent wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
>> >
>> >> That alone makes it way better than privately insured and
delivered.
>> >> health services.
>> >
>> > But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly*
be better
>> > than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against >> >> > everything that America Stands For??!??
>>
>> Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run
>> by doctors and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and
>> hospitals but doesn't "run" them.
>
> Still doesn't do much good though ... subsidizing
> incompetence doesn't IMPROVE things.
American health costs are higher than anywhere in the world
because of insurance administration. Yet outcomes are worse.
Doesn't sound like incompetence to me.
Sounds like in the USA we need to socialize, not medicine and patient
care, but insurance and take the profit to the insurers out of it.
But then in the US Military Services health care is free to service members
and their families. It is paid for out of the budget of the Defense Department.
If that is not the situation we want to enjoy then we should keep things
as they
are. If it sounds desirable maybe everyone should enlist or just vote
to pay
some more taxes if we are working to pay for healthcare for everyone.
Oh and we have a movement called Medicare for All that you might want to learn more about. I have Medicare and at 88 have to report
that in 2025 it has repaired my ankle and kept me in rehab facility for
about 2.5 months. I got out of the hospital on April 11tg. Then I noted
a bump on my nose that would not heal and it was basal cell carcinoma
and I had to go to a Dermatological Surgeon and she worked very hard
to make sure that all the cancer was gone. Right now I have a bunch
of stitches in my face and on my nose where a skin graft from my face
was done. Not one bit of fun in a long long day of cut, check the slice
for cancer and then slice again, then stitch up the whole mess, with
tons of local anesthetic injections. All on Medicare which is socialized insurance for old folks like myself.
bliss
All on Medicare which is socialized insurance for old folks like myself.
On 22/12/2025 16:49, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
That is a model many countries use. It's not perfect either.
Sounds like in the USA we need to socialize, not medicine and
patient care, but insurance and take the profit to the insurers out
of it.
On 12/22/25 07:57, Bob Tennent wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 01:54:45 -0500, c186282 wrote:
> On 12/21/25 21:17, Bob Tennent wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 02:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 14:47:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >> >
>> >> That alone makes it way better than privately insured and delivered.
>> >> health services.
>> >
>> > But ... but ... how can *anything* Government-run *possibly* be better
>> > than a private for-profit service?!!?? Doesn’t that go against
>> > everything that America Stands For??!??
>>
>> Health care in Canada isn't "government-run". It's run
>> by doctors and hospitals. Government *pays* doctors and
>> hospitals but doesn't "run" them.
>
> Still doesn't do much good though ... subsidizing
> incompetence doesn't IMPROVE things.
American health costs are higher than anywhere in the world
because of insurance administration. Yet outcomes are worse.
Doesn't sound like incompetence to me.
Sounds like in the USA we need to socialize, not medicine and patient care, but insurance and take the profit to the insurers out of it.
But then in the US Military Services health care is free to
service members
and their families. It is paid for out of the budget of the Defense Department.
If that is not the situation we want to enjoy then we should keep
things as they
are. If it sounds desirable maybe everyone should enlist or just vote
to pay
some more taxes if we are working to pay for healthcare for everyone.
Oh and we have a movement called Medicare for All that you might
want to learn more about. I have Medicare and at 88 have to report
that in 2025 it has repaired my ankle and kept me in rehab facility for
about 2.5 months. I got out of the hospital on April 11tg. Then I noted
a bump on my nose that would not heal and it was basal cell carcinoma
and I had to go to a Dermatological Surgeon and she worked very hard
to make sure that all the cancer was gone. Right now I have a bunch
of stitches in my face and on my nose where a skin graft from my face
was done. Not one bit of fun in a long long day of cut, check the slice
for cancer and then slice again, then stitch up the whole mess, with
tons of local anesthetic injections. All on Medicare which is socialized insurance for old folks like myself.
On 2025-12-22, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I hope you're doing better nowadays and that all is well!
On 12/23/25 03:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-22, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Big snip
I wish I could say that i am doing better but it seems that the whole day of surgery and repair has exhaberated my Chronic Exhaustion
I hope you're doing better nowadays and that all is well!
and I am so, so worn out by the activities of daily living that it is a relief to sit down and type for a bit.
Usually when I have over-exerted myself I get sick with influenza like symptoms but I am just so tired that it is hard to believe.
If you every have a 'flu like illness and find that your get tired on
resuming your normal activities for the sake of your health get more
rest and be very careful of exertion. This may or may not prevent the
post virual fatigue syndrome but I had never heard of such a problem
in my years of nursing. So I went out and started to exercise again and soon I was reduced to very little activity. That was when I was 46 yoa
and I am now 88 yoa and can barely take care of myself.
bliss
On 23/12/2025 19:38, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I wish I could say that i am doing better but it seems that theBTDTGTTS...
whole day of surgery and repair has exhaberated my Chronic Exhaustion
and I am so, so worn out by the activities of daily living that it is a
relief to sit down and type for a bit.
Usually when I have over-exerted myself I get sick with influenza >> like symptoms but I am just so tired that it is hard to believe.
My last operation fucked me up for over a year with similar symptoms.
If you every have a 'flu like illness and find that your get tired on
resuming your normal activities for the sake of your health get more
rest and be very careful of exertion. This may or may not prevent the
post virual fatigue syndrome but I had never heard of such a problem
in my years of nursing. So I went out and started to exercise again and
soon I was reduced to very little activity. That was when I was 46 yoa
and I am now 88 yoa and can barely take care of myself.
bliss
You may have some undiagnosed viral illness or even a depressed immune
system due to some cancer or other.
More likely the USA need to get rid of health insurance. Sadly, that
thing is getting adopted in some other countries. And we need only look
at the USA to see what the future might have in store...
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 23/12/2025 19:38, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I wish I could say that i am doing better but it seems that the >>> whole day of surgery and repair has exhaberated my Chronic ExhaustionBTDTGTTS...
and I am so, so worn out by the activities of daily living that it is a
relief to sit down and type for a bit.
Usually when I have over-exerted myself I get sick with influenza >>> like symptoms but I am just so tired that it is hard to believe.
My last operation fucked me up for over a year with similar symptoms.
If you every have a 'flu like illness and find that your get tired on
resuming your normal activities for the sake of your health get more
rest and be very careful of exertion. This may or may not prevent the
post virual fatigue syndrome but I had never heard of such a problem
in my years of nursing. So I went out and started to exercise again and >>> soon I was reduced to very little activity. That was when I was 46 yoa
and I am now 88 yoa and can barely take care of myself.
bliss
You may have some undiagnosed viral illness or even a depressed immune
system due to some cancer or other.
I think the long-term impacts of viral infections are becoming clearer
and clearer. Post-polio syndrome has been reported since at least the
1980s. Long COVID is well known. Epstein-Barr virus has been
statistically connected to MS (although I don’t think anyone’s figured out what the mechanism is yet) and more recently Lupus.
Personally I’ve got lucky so far. But I know four people with MS and
one of my coworkers spent years struggling with long COVID, with
Bobbie’s description above matching their experience. (Another coworker went long-term sick around the same time but I don’t have the inside
track on what’s up with them.)
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