From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 04:18:40 -0400, c186282 wrote:

The XFCE version is probably "best" overall, but as I remember you're
a KDE fanatic.

I've got KDE on the Fedora and Leap boxes. Don't need another KDE to
confuse me. I had Debian/Xfce on my Linux box at work. Certainly usable
and the trailing edge is a good place to be with a production machine. The real driver was I needed a 32 bit distro.

Red Hat used to be good ... but after selling out to IBM, it and all
the downstream versions became basically "beta testing" versions for
IBM.

When I switched from Red Hat Linux to SuSE in 2002, RHL was sort of beta.
Q.v. gcc 2.96.

https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html

They had to follow up with another version since it wouldn't compile the kernel. The RHL Python brew also broke existing scripts. There were
probably other problems I didn't run into. It only took a couple of
decades before I would look at Fedora.

Of course plenty of OTHER distros out there beyond MX,
Linux and BSD. IF you have the bandwidth then try 'em and see what
fits YOUR wants and needs. I'm not some religious crusader here ...
whatever suits YOU.

Truth is for what I do Leap, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mint/Cinnamon all work equally well. antiX with IceWM might not but that's sort of an experiment
with the eeePC. That isn't and never was something you'd want to do a lot
of work on.

I do keep an eye out for a distro when I get ambitious enough to redo the Ubuntu box. 26.04 is the end of the line for it. Even 26.10 supposedly
will be filled with AI goodness.

Hmm, ever tried GenToo ? I never did. Might be worth a look .......

Nope. I don't distro hop as much as put different distros on different machines for variety. I've got other fish to fry than nursing Gentoo or
one of the BSDs along.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/13/26 16:21, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 04:18:40 -0400, c186282 wrote:

The XFCE version is probably "best" overall, but as I remember you're
a KDE fanatic.

I've got KDE on the Fedora and Leap boxes. Don't need another KDE to
confuse me. I had Debian/Xfce on my Linux box at work. Certainly usable
and the trailing edge is a good place to be with a production machine. The real driver was I needed a 32 bit distro.

Red Hat used to be good ... but after selling out to IBM, it and all
the downstream versions became basically "beta testing" versions for
IBM.

When I switched from Red Hat Linux to SuSE in 2002, RHL was sort of beta. Q.v. gcc 2.96.

https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html

They had to follow up with another version since it wouldn't compile the kernel. The RHL Python brew also broke existing scripts. There were
probably other problems I didn't run into. It only took a couple of
decades before I would look at Fedora.

Of course plenty of OTHER distros out there beyond MX,
Linux and BSD. IF you have the bandwidth then try 'em and see what
fits YOUR wants and needs. I'm not some religious crusader here ...
whatever suits YOU.

Truth is for what I do Leap, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mint/Cinnamon all work equally well. antiX with IceWM might not but that's sort of an experiment with the eeePC. That isn't and never was something you'd want to do a lot
of work on.

I do keep an eye out for a distro when I get ambitious enough to redo the Ubuntu box. 26.04 is the end of the line for it. Even 26.10 supposedly
will be filled with AI goodness.

Hmm, ever tried GenToo ? I never did. Might be worth a look .......

Nope. I don't distro hop as much as put different distros on different machines for variety. I've got other fish to fry than nursing Gentoo or
one of the BSDs along.

Distro-hopping ... means throwing away more work
that I'd like.

Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is
good for.

After some fooling around for years, MX is now my
go-to. Middle-of-the-road, you can easily add to
it or subtract from it. Good utilities selection,
seems to run on anything even more reliably than Mint.
Guess there's a reason it's been hovering near or at
the top of the DistroWatch list for years on end.

Did have a Manjaro box for awhile. A speck too weird
but, with a few tweaks, it worked OK. Until, after
about a year, the whole updates thing exploded to
hell and NONE of the suggested fixes helped. Had
to flush it. The box is now ... you guessed it.

Now for a "small" Linux - ANTIX - but DO have to
replace all those utterly dismal and depressing
Greek commie backgrounds with something more
cheerful :-)

Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
it's a Linux.

BSDs ... have had best experiences with Dragonfly and
Ghost. Free/Net/Open ... great for servers but not the
best 'desktop' experience.

Not REALLY what they're meant for however. Did run one
my office servers on Free for about a year - solid
and secure if not exactly 'cutting edge'. BSDs are
always behind when it comes to drivers. Still, now,
I'd pick Free over the Gnome-infested CENTOS.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is good for.

kvm/QEMU for me. I know you had problems with it but I haven't.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
it's a Linux.

I run gentoo everywhere. I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish". It's a "you only get what you install" distro. Which means, you're compiling everything as well. But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same packages available as any other distro.

The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible. It has a learning curve though. After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.


--
Sent from my Personal DECstation 5000/25
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 02:22, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is good for.

kvm/QEMU for me. I know you had problems with it but I haven't.

KVM/Xen and friends ... works but it's
just nasty/crude compared to VirtualBox.

Used 'em all on my office servers.

Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do
it if you pay lots of money.

We'll see shortly.

VMs can be very useful. Great for testing new
distros ... but can also be used to turn your
expensive super-server into MANY de-facto
machines. Everybody got USED to this, but NOW
that path is NOT as clear - unless you want
to spend vast quantities of money. MIGHT be
cheaper to buy 10 actual boxes instead .....

For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea
to VM one machine into 10. Hardware FAILS ...
and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down.
Been there, seen it, smelled the smoke coming
out of the server.

Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.

Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating
what I *thought* would be enough fake disk space
I saw I'd already used up like 85% plus. VBox ...
just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files
and then two or three weird/dangerous ops to
convince the OS to use the extra space.

So, guess which solution I go with ....

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 03:01, Mechanicjay wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
it's a Linux.

I run gentoo everywhere. I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".

Look on the net. It's a bit "different", hence ...

It's a
"you only get what you install" distro. Which means, you're compiling everything as well. But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same packages available as any other distro.

The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible. It has a learning
curve though. After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.

Don't love the "portage" idea ... smells
of antique BSD distros.

IMHO, put it all UP FRONT ALL THE TIME. Don't
"port" ANYTHING.

But, still GONNA give it a try. MAYbe I'll like it.
Too many of the traditional distros have become
a bit weird for no good reasons. Gotta cultivate
possible alts, Just In Case.

SLACK is also there - but it IS a lot of work.
Getting way too OLD for that. "Just Works OK"
is my goal now.

Got Linux distros when they still came on floppies.
Not my first rodeo, so to speak.

Not sure how I didn't give GenToo a try before ... went
to the BSDs instead.

Anyway, we'll see .......

Still waiting for a modern updated version of VMS.
It'll never happen :-) Have this huge thick small-
print manual ........

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) wrote:

I run gentoo everywhere. I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish". It's a >"you only get what you install" distro. Which means, you're compiling >everything as well.

I don't see any advantages of that, other that you have untested
binaries and a big chance of having a broken toolchain, and that
you're unlikely to have the deep understanding of what you're doing
that the distribution people have.

Greetings
Marc
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-13 05:21, c186282 wrote:

On 6/12/26 05:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-06-12 09:14, c186282 wrote:

On 6/12/26 02:22, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 wrote:

...

   Didn't do the server install. TRIED the XFCE first, very
   threadbare and hates VBox. Then KDE even though I don't
   like it. Has more stuff.

   Just started myrlyn a minute ago ... "searched" for
   "FORTRAN" and "COBOL" with all search-field boxes
   checked. NADA. Checked the "contains" box and it
   FINALLY found some stuff - too MUCH stuff. It's better
   than "discovery" but still not my old GUI YAST.

Use "opi" to search for extra packages.

opi fortran finds dozens of hits.

cer@Laicolasse:~> opi cobol
Searching repos for: cobol
1. gnucobol
2. gnu-cobol
3. gnucobol-esql
4. gnucobol-runtime
5. gnucobol-esql-devel
Pick a number (0 to quit):


This is not new.

  Is to me ... I went Deb some years ago when OS
  dropped a bunch of olde-tyme utils for no good
  reason. I used a lot of those from Python scripts
  and such. Evoke, parse, exactly the info I wanted.

  Now, OS looks just HORRIBLE.

   And the software SELECTION is much smaller than even
   a few years ago.

Use opi.

  Hmm - NOT installed by default. Why not ? Barely
  different from zypper.

Not so. It is a lot different than zypper. It searches in all repos, configured or not, and finds what repo has it. Then it adds the repo and install the package(s), by calling zypper.

  After INSTALLING Yast ... the terminal version seems
  the only survivor ... it too can find obscure stuff,
  but makes installation/dependencies easier than zypper.

Do not use YaST, it is not maintained. It will cause errors eventually.
Use myrlin.

  Also, 'opi' is pure CLI, not a convenient and very
  helpful GUI thingie like 'synaptic'. Really NOTHING
  beats synaptic for all-around utility. 'OctoPkg'
  comes close, but it's still clunkier.

  Sorry, not sold. Not at all. Seen how it COULD be,
  and now they took it all away.

I don't care you don't like it. YOU HAVE to use opi to find things you
don't find with zypper or myrlin. There is no alternative.

  Gonna squish it into a Maybe-Someday VDI file and
  stash it somewhere deep and dark until I want the
  disk space back. NO point in wasting my time with
  today's idea of OpenSUSE.

  Some versions of Arch that might be interesting,
  a couple BSDs too. Never tried Gentoo ... might be
  worth a look. Did install GhostBSD on another box,
  not TOO bad, worth more time.

  But OpenSUSE ... past glory, modern DISAPPOINTMENT.

  FLUSH !

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:57:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do it if you pay lots of
money.

I didn't try really hard but VB on Mint didn't go smoothly even after blacklisting the kvm module. It bitched about dependencies that looked
like they would conflict with installed packages. No need when 'apt
install virt-manager' goes smoothly.

For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea to VM one machine into
10. Hardware FAILS ...
and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down. Been there, seen it,
smelled the smoke coming out of the server.

Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.

I had a long discussion with one of our senior implementation people. Mirroring a VM to another VM on the same box doesn't cover your ass very
well.

We used VMs for testing in house. The discussions could get heated if
someone shutdown a VM they didn't think anyone was using to fire up
another one.

Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating what I *thought*
would be enough fake disk space I saw I'd already used up like 85%
plus. VBox ... just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files and then two or
three weird/dangerous ops to convince the OS to use the extra space.

So, guess which solution I go with ....

I skimped with MX and gave it 20 GB. It used 11 G, which is okay for my purposed. I also gave it 8 GB of RAM and so far it's used under 1 GB. Not
bad.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:

I run gentoo everywhere. I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
It's a "you only get what you install" distro. Which means, you're
compiling everything as well. But it runs all the same stuff and has
all the same packages available as any other distro.

The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years
ago for me.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 08:27, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-13 05:21, c186282 wrote:

On 6/12/26 05:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-06-12 09:14, c186282 wrote:

On 6/12/26 02:22, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 wrote:

...

   Didn't do the server install. TRIED the XFCE first, very
   threadbare and hates VBox. Then KDE even though I don't
   like it. Has more stuff.

   Just started myrlyn a minute ago ... "searched" for
   "FORTRAN" and "COBOL" with all search-field boxes
   checked. NADA. Checked the "contains" box and it
   FINALLY found some stuff - too MUCH stuff. It's better
   than "discovery" but still not my old GUI YAST.

Use "opi" to search for extra packages.

opi fortran finds dozens of hits.

cer@Laicolasse:~> opi cobol
Searching repos for: cobol
1. gnucobol
2. gnu-cobol
3. gnucobol-esql
4. gnucobol-runtime
5. gnucobol-esql-devel
Pick a number (0 to quit):


This is not new.

   Is to me ... I went Deb some years ago when OS
   dropped a bunch of olde-tyme utils for no good
   reason. I used a lot of those from Python scripts
   and such. Evoke, parse, exactly the info I wanted.

   Now, OS looks just HORRIBLE.

   And the software SELECTION is much smaller than even
   a few years ago.

Use opi.

   Hmm - NOT installed by default. Why not ? Barely
   different from zypper.

Not so. It is a lot different than zypper. It searches in all repos, configured or not, and finds what repo has it. Then it adds the repo and install the package(s), by calling zypper.

   After INSTALLING Yast ... the terminal version seems
   the only survivor ... it too can find obscure stuff,
   but makes installation/dependencies easier than zypper.

Do not use YaST, it is not maintained. It will cause errors eventually.
Use myrlin.

   Also, 'opi' is pure CLI, not a convenient and very
   helpful GUI thingie like 'synaptic'. Really NOTHING
   beats synaptic for all-around utility. 'OctoPkg'
   comes close, but it's still clunkier.

   Sorry, not sold. Not at all. Seen how it COULD be,
   and now they took it all away.

I don't care you don't like it. YOU HAVE to use opi to find things you
don't find with zypper or myrlin. There is no alternative.

   Gonna squish it into a Maybe-Someday VDI file and
   stash it somewhere deep and dark until I want the
   disk space back. NO point in wasting my time with
   today's idea of OpenSUSE.

   Some versions of Arch that might be interesting,
   a couple BSDs too. Never tried Gentoo ... might be
   worth a look. Did install GhostBSD on another box,
   not TOO bad, worth more time.

   But OpenSUSE ... past glory, modern DISAPPOINTMENT.

   FLUSH !

Thanks.

But it's GONE. Not worth the time anymore.

Downloading a couple of Solaris derivs, including
something called 'Tribblix' with fair reviews. The
mirror is SLOW SLOW SLOW alas.

Those will keep me occupied next week :-)

Solaris was a perfectly decent IX-ish system that
kind of got lost in the shuffle. OpenIndiana is
the most worthy modern heir. I've fooled with it
several years ago and it wasn't bad. May be even
better now. 'Tribblix' is pulled from that - but
is claimed to have a more sane packaging system
and be more desktop friendly. CL installation
from the live ver however, something about a
"kitchen-sink" install model :-)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 22:51:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Downloading a couple of Solaris derivs, including something called
'Tribblix' with fair reviews. The mirror is SLOW SLOW SLOW alas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_with_Tribbles

I was never into Star Trek and never saw that episode. However I had read Heinlein's 'The Rolling Stones', maybe even in the 'Boy's Life' version,
and really wanted a flat cat. That might have something to do with my like
for non-flat cats. Heinlein signed off on the Tribbles script though he
later regretted it.

Heinlein's 'juveniles' got him from the pulps to more serious novels, but
I was in the right place at the right time since most were published in
the '50s.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 14:40, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:

I run gentoo everywhere. I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
It's a "you only get what you install" distro. Which means, you're
compiling everything as well. But it runs all the same stuff and has
all the same packages available as any other distro.

The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years
ago for me.

Fully agree.

However GenToo seems designed for those who DO still
want to ultra-customize, so it's good it's still out
there.

After reading-up a bit I decided NOT to do GenToo - am
too old now for so much fiddly, maybe volatile, stuff.
Leave that for the teens/20s crowd.

TRYING to download a Solaris deriv called "Tribblix", fair
reviews. The download link is VERY slow alas and has broken
twice now. There is "Tribblix" and "OmniTribblix" ... the
second one Sounded Better. Now trying the 'regular' one.

Also fails about 20% thru. Will see if there are alts.

No, don't hate Solaris. Not always everyone's proverbial
cup-o-tea but it's a solid lineage. Used it on a limited
basis a few years back. Kinda COMPLICATED partition
spectrum alas, seems overkill unless maybe you're
setting up a petabyte server.

Anyway, if 'Tribblix' won't download I also got the
latest OpenIndiana and will see how/if that's improved
over the past few years.

DID try "Plan9" once. I sort of "get it", but it's
really not for *A* box ... more a 'cluster' system.
Seems they DID port it to the latest IBM mini-
mainframes a few years ago - so it's still out there
doing its special thing :-)

STILL hoping for a modern-tweaked VMS. That was
WAY ahead of its time ... and would not be all
so out-of-date even now. Could natively do
international cluster/cloud over acoustic
modems.

Also have this 4" thick small-print manual ...

Alas ... will "AI" obsolete all human programmers
and systems ??? Stay tuned - but expect the worst.
Human made/coded ... likely to become a 'fetish'
like valve HAM sets. THEN they will decree it as
a "security risk" because there aren't 10,000
spyware bits included.

IMHO, never let good systems die.

SMALL end - still have a CP/M-86 VM. Another
Good System. DID come across a couple of
modern Z-80 (compatible) "kit" boards. MIGHT
spend the money. CP/M and old DOS were
"just good enough" for a bunch of things.
Real Z-80 chips can still be had too if
you're that ambitious.

Do have a ZX-81 under The Heap somewhere
but that really wasn't wired for much
expansion. You CAN buy refurbished S-100
boxes now, but $$$ for the most part and
good luck with the peripherials.

FPGAs can be programmed to emulate almost
any old chip, as or more fast than the
originals. Even saw a TI-990(0) one last
year sometime - FUNKY, but good.

Ah, JUST got 'Tribblix' regular - after 1pm.
Will try it tomorrow. Note the site has NO
"contact" link - can't even complain about
the deathly slow/fragile downlink. THINK
it's mostly just ONE guy, Peter Tribble,
not a collaborative team. Not so great,
maybe not so likely to survive. Still have
the latest OpenIndiana though ...

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 14:38, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:57:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do it if you pay lots of
money.

I didn't try really hard but VB on Mint didn't go smoothly even after blacklisting the kvm module. It bitched about dependencies that looked
like they would conflict with installed packages. No need when 'apt
install virt-manager' goes smoothly.

For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea to VM one machine into
10. Hardware FAILS ...
and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down. Been there, seen it,
smelled the smoke coming out of the server.

Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.

I had a long discussion with one of our senior implementation people. Mirroring a VM to another VM on the same box doesn't cover your ass very well.

We used VMs for testing in house. The discussions could get heated if
someone shutdown a VM they didn't think anyone was using to fire up
another one.

Last VM servers I set up, used a very minimal Deb as the
host and then went from there. It was pretty successful
but frankly I pref the dedicated-boxes model - more robust.

Alas ... with the import/tariff wars and lack of memory
chips, the One Good Box with several VMs on it MAY be
the more affordable model now.

Oh wait, just pay M$ to be your "servers" and "backup"
and "working storage" - that's sure to work out in the
end, until Xi taps the Big Shiny Red Button on his desk :-)

Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating what I *thought*
would be enough fake disk space I saw I'd already used up like 85%
plus. VBox ... just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files and then two or
three weird/dangerous ops to convince the OS to use the extra space.

So, guess which solution I go with ....

I skimped with MX and gave it 20 GB. It used 11 G, which is okay for my purposed. I also gave it 8 GB of RAM and so far it's used under 1 GB. Not bad.

If you're using VBox then it's super-easy to expand the
fake disk space. KVM/Xen ... NOT so much.

ANYhow ... try it out. Don't think you will be disappointed.
They pretty much Got It Just Right.

I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems
to be the ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a
bit ... an easy reach. It's where I've settled unless
I'm intentionally looking for "adventure".


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/14/26 23:15, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 22:51:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Downloading a couple of Solaris derivs, including something called
'Tribblix' with fair reviews. The mirror is SLOW SLOW SLOW alas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_with_Tribbles

I was never into Star Trek and never saw that episode. However I had read Heinlein's 'The Rolling Stones', maybe even in the 'Boy's Life' version,
and really wanted a flat cat. That might have something to do with my like for non-flat cats. Heinlein signed off on the Tribbles script though he
later regretted it.

Heinlein's 'juveniles' got him from the pulps to more serious novels, but
I was in the right place at the right time since most were published in
the '50s.

Did, FINALLY, get "Tribblix" to download.

I'll test it tomorrow.

Alas smells of a One Guy operation. Not so great.
Reviews were OK ... but will it be there tomorrow ?

Solaris was pretty OK ... and it's heirs too.
DID make some use of OpenIndiana a few years
ago - though it's biased for HUGE servers.
Worth checking back to see what's improved
some years later.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 01:27:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:

I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems to be the
ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a bit ... an easy reach.
It's where I've settled unless I'm intentionally looking for
"adventure".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp1W5w6eJi8

The guy makes some good points. Mint for beginners. Ubuntu if you plan to
work in the field since Ubuntu Server is widely used. He uses Fedora, and
that also has RHEL in the wings. He loathes Omarchy. Said he was curious
about CatchOS but is skeptical about it's top rankings on Distrowatch. If you're going to use an Arch derivative and really want to learn about
Linux administration go directly to Arch. Said he used it but it does tend
to brick sooner or later.

He mentioned he's always been tempted to try NixOS but doesn't want to
learn a specialized language to set up a system however he found it interesting France decided to use it. For someone looking for a job very
few organizations use it so being a NixOS wizard doesn't do much on a CV.

I don't think he even mentioned SUSE in passing.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 01:46:23 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Alas smells of a One Guy operation. Not so great.
Reviews were OK ... but will it be there tomorrow ?

I got the impression it's Peter Tribble in a garage some where.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-15, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 22:51:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Downloading a couple of Solaris derivs, including something called
'Tribblix' with fair reviews. The mirror is SLOW SLOW SLOW alas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_with_Tribbles

I was never into Star Trek and never saw that episode. However I had read Heinlein's 'The Rolling Stones', maybe even in the 'Boy's Life' version,
and really wanted a flat cat. That might have something to do with my like for non-flat cats. Heinlein signed off on the Tribbles script though he later regretted it.

Funny you should mention that. I just finished re-reading "The Rolling
Stones" yesterday - I've been working through my entire Heinlein collection. The flat cats are indeed cute. "Tribbles", on the other hand, was cute but, uh, fluff. :-)

Heinlein's 'juveniles' got him from the pulps to more serious novels, but
I was in the right place at the right time since most were published in
the '50s.

When I started junior high in the '60s, the school library had a decent
science fiction section, including a number of Heinlein's juveniles.
That's where I got started reading good SF (and learned the difference
between good SF and BEM schlock).
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 17:02:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

When I started junior high in the '60s, the school library had a decent science fiction section, including a number of Heinlein's juveniles.
That's where I got started reading good SF (and learned the difference between good SF and BEM schlock).

We didn't have a designated junior high, only 7th and 8th grades. They did
set up so we moved between classrooms to get us used to high school.

The high school library was decent. I stumbled across Vonnegut's 'Player Piano' there. Vonnegut's fame came later and I think it might have beena included because of the setting. It was Troy High School and his fictional town was Ilium. The setting was actually closer to Schenectady where he
had worked at GE.

It hit close to home. I was pointed to a career as some sort of engineer,
TBD, and the plot has society divided between engineers and managers on
one part of town, and the former workers displaced by automation in
another. They worked as 'Reeks and Recks', recreation and reclamation make work projects.

When I graduated high school I continued at the local engineering school
that was basically across the street from the high school. Graduated, and
got a job designing automated molding systems. Yup. Now we've reached the point where the engineers are being automated out of a job. Of course
plastics production and other manufacturing jobs were shipped to
Bangladesh long ago. Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?
--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.

One cant account for technologically backward countries
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.

One cant account for technologically backward countries

How is the British automotive industry doing?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.

One cant account for technologically backward countries

How is the British automotive industry doing?

WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
Best left to greasy pawed Krauts.
--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.
--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The >> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day.
The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly
E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over
30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of
the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."
--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 11:54:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.

One cant account for technologically backward countries

How is the British automotive industry doing?

WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
Best left to greasy pawed Krauts.

Like the Thairumph bikes? Historically Britain was first up with the industrial revolution, and they clung to the advantage. For example the attitude toward India. 'Just grow the cotton, wogs. We'll produce the
textiles and sell the goods back to you.' It was very lukewarm support but Britain favored the south during the US Civil War. It was a source of raw material while the industrialized north was a competitor.

Germany was fine as long as it was a mishmash of principalities making
cheap knockoffs. With unification and the growth of technology Britain got nervous.

Pissed it all away, didn't you? Not much left beyond the paper shufflers
in the City, is there?

The US followed suit. Today we grow cotton, ship it to Bangladesh, and buy
it back as cheap goods from Walmart.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 12:34:54 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful gatherings.

The Roma tomato is a good example. It doesn't taste like much but it's
been bred to have a squarish shape for more efficient packing and to be
tough enough to survive mechanical harvesting. For transport from the
fields the tomatoes are loaded into large open bins like huge bathtubs. They're piled as high as possible so the freeways sometimes resemble
ketchup from the spillage.

Some factory operations have been automated but processes like shoe
production were shipped to Asia. The first choice was the Mexican
maquiladoras but then the uppity Mexicans wanted a living wage.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 15:10:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. >>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly
E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over
30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of
the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

That's one of my pet peeves. Afaik there is no such thing as an inorganic beansprout.

The man who taught ne to fly was an ag pilot in Vermont. A granola-muncher moved to Vermont and started a certified organic farm. John did his best keeping his eye on wind directions and so forth but when you're dumping pesticide from a Thrush flying 8' off the ground at 120 mph, the cloud
tends to spread. Farmer Brown did not appreciate his free pesticide application.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-16 16:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. >>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly
E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over
30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of
the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

My memory is not what it was, but I think that epidemic did not
originate where they thought.

Spain was accused, causing our farmers huge damage. But:

"Eventually investigators traced the outbreak to contaminated fenugreek sprouts grown at an organic farm in Lower Saxony. The contamination was believed to originate from imported fenugreek seeds, likely from Egypt, although the exact point of contamination was never established with
complete certainty."
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/16/26 06:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

It is coming. However robots that can quickly, delicately,
pick strawberries and similar just barely exist. They would
also be a HUGE up-front investment at this point - and could
be seriously obsolete long before the loans are paid off.

'AI' alone won't do it - it's also the rest of the bot.
I've seen vids of some contenders ... but they're bulky
and SLOW compared to near-slave humans. Also have a prob
reliably detecting the perfectly ripe ones, or rotten ones.

So, quick eval, NOT WORTH THE INVESTMENT at this time.
Just put up with the humans. T

Ten years of improvements, then maybe.

Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are
sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price
until it finally becomes too high.

High-density grain-based stuff, meats, those are what
will keep people alive and kicking. Work on better
automation for wheat/corn/barley/oat fields first.
There are huge kinda all-purpose harvesting machines
for such fields already, but they're very complicated
and could surely be given more smarts and mechanical
refinement. "Cheap" "smart" AND "functional" is the goal.

Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody
EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields
of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines,
and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes
the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR
'socialist' or anything else. The ultimate conclusion
will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so .....

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/16/26 06:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

That was not the decision taken by many US firms.

One cant account for technologically backward countries

How is the British automotive industry doing?

WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
Best  left to greasy pawed Krauts.

Not going to BE a Kraut auto industry soon - it'll
all be crappy, sabotaged, China-EVs.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/16/26 09:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day.
The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Yum !

They started with DDT about 1940, dusted everything
with it. Lifespans kept going up.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/16/26 10:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. >>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

In USA, "organic" now seems to mean "infested with
deadly bacteria/fungi/molds".

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly
E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over
30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of
the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

"Green" sure SOUNDS good, great propagandists ... but
in PRACTICE ......

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 21:47:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:

It is coming. However robots that can quickly, delicately, pick
strawberries and similar just barely exist. They would also be a HUGE
up-front investment at this point - and could be seriously obsolete
long before the loans are paid off.

Strawberries are a challenge.

https://orchard-rite.com/tree-shakers

Yuo can find youtube videos of them in action. like Roma tomatoes
cultivars that can be shaken out of the tree without damage are a parallel development.

High-density grain-based stuff, meats, those are what will keep
people alive and kicking. Work on better automation for
wheat/corn/barley/oat fields first.
There are huge kinda all-purpose harvesting machines for such fields
already, but they're very complicated and could surely be given more
smarts and mechanical refinement. "Cheap" "smart" AND "functional" is
the goal.

Getting there.

https://www.kubota.com/innovation/our-stories/autonomous-combine- harvester.html

Sounds good to me. I never operated a combine but I've put in a few miles dragging a harrow around. Stare at mountain 5 miles away. Get to the end
of the field, turn around, stare at another mountain 7 miles away. Rinse
and repeat all day. I turned too sharp on one pass and pinched the tire.
The wouldn't have been bad but it was filled with a calcium chloride
solution for weight. Every rotation on the way back to the barn I got
another chloride shower. Great fun.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:09:13 -0400, c186282 wrote:

They started with DDT about 1940, dusted everything with it.
Lifespans kept going up.

I remember drive-in movies as a kid. A/C consisted of rolling down the
windows letting the mosquitoes in. The guy who drove up and down the
aisles with a DDT fogger was really popular. I'm still alive.

My career started in the plastics industry and I sometimes wondered how
that was going to turn out. Some of the stuff is nasty, formaldehyde,
tertiary amines for catalysts, plastisols, ... You know that 'new car
smell'? Better living through chemistry.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 12:34:54 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The >> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful gatherings.

His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for
all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks
pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise',
more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
factory ........

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:11:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:

In USA, "organic" now seems to mean "infested with deadly
bacteria/fungi/molds".

I do wonder about RFK and his raw milk thing. I grew up in dairy country
and I know cows don't shower very often.

Sort of apropos: I read an article about Jenner a couple of days ago.
While he was on to something like many people who follow The Science he
wasn't above ignoring data. Many milkmaids had cowpox followed by
smallpox. Inconvenient for the story. It's been reclassified but is
Jenner's day cowpox was called 'variolae vaccinae'.


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:07:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:

Not going to BE a Kraut auto industry soon - it'll all be crappy,
sabotaged, China-EVs.

AMC paved the way. Look up the history of Beijing Benz.

For another kick in the teeth:

https://www.media.stellantis.com/em-en/opel/press/happy-tenth-birthday- ampera-opel-s-pioneering-electric-car

That's where the Chevy Volt was born, not Detroit. Opel has had a strange history too. GM bought it during Weimar when the entire German auto
industry was about to go under. Discouraging for the home of Otto and
Benz.

iirc there were a few more slaes before they wound up in Stellantis.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the obsoleted
humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. No
'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to offer in
the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could take pride in but they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked but there was the satisfaction
of doing them well. Sort of the John Henry meme where he was faster than
the steam drill.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Yes, hardly an alternative to Centos.
Tumbleweed is okay, so why is Leap an ebola turd?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/06/2026 19:00, rbowman wrote:

Pissed it all away, didn't you? Not much left beyond the paper shufflers
in the City, is there?

The US followed suit. Today we grow cotton, ship it to Bangladesh, and buy
it back as cheap goods from Walmart.

I see TACO has prevailed, and Trump has surrendered to Iran, let them
keep their nukes and will pay them $300bn in reparations. If they just
let ships through Hormuz. At a price.

Even our limp wet rag of a PM isn't that stupid
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 16/06/2026 19:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 16:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:

Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?

Because automation is cheaper?

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. >>>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour. >>>>>

Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and
deadly E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak
killed over 30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It
remains one of the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

My memory is not what it was, but I think that epidemic did not
originate where they thought.

Spain was accused, causing our farmers huge damage. But:

"Eventually investigators traced the outbreak to contaminated fenugreek sprouts grown at an organic farm in Lower Saxony. The contamination was believed to originate from imported fenugreek seeds, likely from Egypt, although the exact point of contamination was never established with complete certainty."

That is bollocks., It was bean sprouts. You don't use fenugreek to grow beansprouts
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 17/06/2026 02:47, c186282 wrote:

Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody
  EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields
  of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines,
  and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes
  the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR
  'socialist' or anything else. The ultimate conclusion
  will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so .....

...start a war with Ukraine!
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 10:58:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That is bollocks., It was bean sprouts. You don't use fenugreek to grow beansprouts

True. You use fenugreek seeds to grow fenugreek spouts.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote:

The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field
picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful >> gatherings.

His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for
all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks
pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise',
more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
factory ........

In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says:

Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a
trillionaire instead of everyone having food?

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are
sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price
until it finally becomes too high.

My wife just got back from a shopping trip. One store was
charging over $5 for a head of lettuce - while the others
were selling it for 79 cents.

One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the
same products in the poor part of town, since the people
there likely don't have cars or much access to transit.
It's not exactly a free market.

And then there's "dynamic pricing", where different people are
charged different prices, presumably based on the dossier that
the grocers have built on them. Makes you want to pay cash -
at least until facial recognition comes in...

Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody
EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields
of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines,
and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes
the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR
'socialist' or anything else.

The provincial government here has overridden the planning
departments of numerous local cities in order to ram through
re-zoning for higher density. We're seeing great amounts of
cookie-cutter housing being built, plus increasing numbers
of high-rise towers - none of which is affordable.

The ultimate conclusion
will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so .....

Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built
an entire economic model around it. The only thing that
will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion
people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then,
they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More
taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like?
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:35:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the same products
in the poor part of town, since the people there likely don't have cars
or much access to transit.
It's not exactly a free market.

I the '80s there was a coffee shortage, a failed harvest or something. I
don't remember the details but I was working in Ft. Wayne and the price of coffee in the supermarkets doubled and there wasn't much of a selection on
the shelves.

Oe weekend I want down to Indianapolis and found there was no coffee
shortage. Needless to say I stocked up.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/17/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the obsoleted
humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. No
'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to offer in the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could take pride in but they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked but there was the satisfaction
of doing them well. Sort of the John Henry meme where he was faster than
the steam drill.

John Henry is a fair analogy.

Yea, he barely beat the steam drill ... but
it KILLED him.

But NOW we're talking maybe a BILLION+ humans
whose skill spectrum CANNOT compete with "AI".
They're just not wired for it, or not smart
enough, or something ...

BIZ wants ROBOTS. MUCH easier to deal with on
MANY levels.

So, again, WHAT happens to all the obsoleted humans ?

Seems to be NO plan, viable or not.

Basically, they Just DIE HORRIBLY.

Oh, clue, masses of unemployed humans CANNOT BUY
yer AI-Cheapened Shit. This is where the biz/finance
paradigm FALLS DOWN HARD.

But won't show up on the quarterly reports for
awhile yet .....
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/17/26 03:43, Woozy Song wrote:

Yes, hardly an alternative to Centos.
Tumbleweed is okay, so why is Leap an ebola turd?

Leap DOES seem to be an "Ebola Turd" in my
latest eval.

DO remember when OSuse was much much better.

Very unhappy now.

Servers and such - try ANTIX as the minimal
base. Add whatever you need to it.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18 10:26, c186282 wrote:

On 6/17/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the obsoleted
    humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. No
    'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green >>>     factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to
offer in
the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could take pride in but
they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked but there was the
satisfaction
of doing them well. Sort of the John Henry meme where he was faster than
the steam drill.

  John Henry is a fair analogy.

  Yea, he barely beat the steam drill ... but
  it KILLED him.

  But NOW we're talking maybe a BILLION+ humans
  whose skill spectrum CANNOT compete with "AI".
  They're just not wired for it, or not smart
  enough, or something ...

  BIZ wants ROBOTS. MUCH easier to deal with on
  MANY levels.

  So, again, WHAT happens to all the obsoleted humans ?

  Seems to be NO plan, viable or not.

  Basically, they Just DIE HORRIBLY.

  Oh, clue, masses of unemployed humans CANNOT BUY
  yer AI-Cheapened Shit. This is where the biz/finance
  paradigm FALLS DOWN HARD.

  But won't show up on the quarterly reports for
  awhile yet .....

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/17/26 21:15, rbowman wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:35:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the same products
in the poor part of town, since the people there likely don't have cars
or much access to transit.
It's not exactly a free market.

Nasty but, well, it's BUSINESS. The NUMBERS are
what drive the paradigms.

'Compassion'/'fairness' ... Ha Ha Ha ! That's
NEVER how it's worked.

However I've shopped for the basics both in the
shitty part of town and the elite part of town.
Not THAT much diff, here at least. You WILL pay
a bit more at 'convenience stores' in the 'elite'
area however ... not so much at the grocery store.

I the '80s there was a coffee shortage, a failed harvest or something. I don't remember the details but I was working in Ft. Wayne and the price of coffee in the supermarkets doubled and there wasn't much of a selection on the shelves.

Oe weekend I want down to Indianapolis and found there was no coffee shortage. Needless to say I stocked up.

"Shortages" these days seem to be more FABRICATED
than real.

Even thus, note how many basic suppliers are FOLDING.
There IS an underlying economic problem ... been there
for a LONG time now, COVID and even before.

MY area is reasonably "well to do" - not super-rich
but doing OK. Still, my basic grocery bills - and
I don't buy much or 'elite' stuff - have gone up at
about 50% the past five years. $45 became $60+ for
the exact same 10-items-or-less tote I buy.

OK ... LOVE cashew nuts ... the price of THOSE has
gone up like 200%. It's not just Trump or Joe or
Covid or whatever either. Basic white meats - my
main thing - are kinda stable.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.
--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are
sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price
until it finally becomes too high.

My wife just got back from a shopping trip. One store was
charging over $5 for a head of lettuce - while the others
were selling it for 79 cents.

Lettuce IS a "luxury" food ... almost zero
nutrition but requires BIG field and LOTS of
water and LOTS of human labor.

One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the
same products in the poor part of town, since the people
there likely don't have cars or much access to transit.
It's not exactly a free market.

And then there's "dynamic pricing", where different people are
charged different prices, presumably based on the dossier that
the grocers have built on them. Makes you want to pay cash -
at least until facial recognition comes in...

Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody
EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields
of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines,
and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes
the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR
'socialist' or anything else.

The provincial government here has overridden the planning
departments of numerous local cities in order to ram through
re-zoning for higher density. We're seeing great amounts of
cookie-cutter housing being built, plus increasing numbers
of high-rise towers - none of which is affordable.

The ultimate conclusion
will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so .....

Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built
an entire economic model around it. The only thing that
will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion
people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then,
they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More
taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like?

Ummm ... don't get TOO obsessed with Malthus.
He never factored an expanding economic base
or improved tech into his models properly.

The REAL danger now is "AI" replacing a billion+
humans. Have NEVER seen a plan for dealing with
all those obsolete humans.

Look bad, VERY bad.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote:

The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field
picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful >>> gatherings.

His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for
all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks
pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise',
more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
factory ........

In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says:

Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a
trillionaire instead of everyone having food?

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous :-)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says:

     Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a
     trillionaire instead of everyone having food?

False logic. Typical of the Left. 'money' is not 'wealth'

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total population,
for ever, since 18 till death.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 17:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total population,
for ever, since 18 till death.

Neither did the communists or the EU
--
“People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them. Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, one’s agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of one’s suitability to be taken seriously.”

Paul Krugman

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:26, c186282 wrote:

On 6/17/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the obsoleted >>>>     humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. No
    'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green >>>>     factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to
offer in the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could
take pride in but they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked
but there was the satisfaction of doing them well. Sort of the
John Henry meme where he was faster than the steam drill.

  John Henry is a fair analogy.

  Yea, he barely beat the steam drill ... but
  it KILLED him.

Yup. But it's the stuff of legends. They killed his body
but couldn't kill his spirit.

  But NOW we're talking maybe a BILLION+ humans
  whose skill spectrum CANNOT compete with "AI".
  They're just not wired for it, or not smart
  enough, or something ...

  BIZ wants ROBOTS. MUCH easier to deal with on
  MANY levels.

  So, again, WHAT happens to all the obsoleted humans ?

  Seems to be NO plan, viable or not.

  Basically, they Just DIE HORRIBLY.

That's OK, the Powers That Be will paper it over with
noble-sounding phrases like "collateral damage", and
make impassioned speeches about the sacrifices one
must be willing to make for The Economy.

  Oh, clue, masses of unemployed humans CANNOT BUY
  yer AI-Cheapened Shit. This is where the biz/finance
  paradigm FALLS DOWN HARD.

  But won't show up on the quarterly reports for
  awhile yet .....

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how that one plays out.
Already housing sales are falling due to the paucity of
people who can afford it, which is why the ruling classes
are panicking over our falling birth rate.

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

It depends on your definition of success. I've spent my life
avoiding what many people call "success". I'm doing all right
by my definition, though.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built
an entire economic model around it. The only thing that
will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion
people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then,
they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More
taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like?

Ummm ... don't get TOO obsessed with Malthus.
He never factored an expanding economic base
or improved tech into his models properly.

Certainly those factors mitigate the effects. But there
are certain hard limits inherent in the Earth being finite.
If our population continues to double every 40 years, then
in 1800 years the entire mass of the planet will consist of
people crawling over each other like a swarm of bees.

The REAL danger now is "AI" replacing a billion+
humans. Have NEVER seen a plan for dealing with
all those obsolete humans.

Look bad, VERY bad.

"Don't worry - they can't really feel pain."

Have you noticed how the term "quality of life"
has been replaced by "livability"?
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18 20:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 17:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total
population, for ever, since 18 till death.

Neither did the communists or the EU

So? Theoretical communism is not as implemented by countries.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:25:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

Agreed. Making your money by shorting the Bank of England like Soros or running casinos and whorehouse like Adelson isn't good. Speculators and
market manipulators are scum.

Developing real products like Musk, even if playing the system, is good.
I'll even gove props to Bezos. I remember when Amazon was books and CDs
and often promised more than they could deliver. I preferred Barnes &
Noble back then since they had what they sold in stock. Many dotcom
ventures failed; Amazon didn't. I'm not a fan but the Walton family also
built something.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 04:26:10 -0400, c186282 wrote:

So, again, WHAT happens to all the obsoleted humans ?

I believe I mentioned Vonnegut's 'Player Piano' in this group recently.
They work on recreation and reclamation make work projects. Not a plot spoiler, but they aren't happy with the situation.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:32:16 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Servile_State
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:37:06 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total population,
for ever, since 18 till death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat#Soviet_Union

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-18 21:45, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:37:06 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total population,
for ever, since 18 till death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat#Soviet_Union

As long as the state could provide jobs. The state was obligated to
provide jobs.

This is a new situation, there will not be jobs. Ergo, the only solution
is an universal salary, which is, arguably, a form of communism. Never
meant to be compared with an actual existing or past actual government.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:26:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:26, c186282 wrote:

On 6/17/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the
    obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. >>>>>     No 'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest
    Soylent Green factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to
offer in the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could take
pride in but they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked but there
was the satisfaction of doing them well. Sort of the John Henry meme
where he was faster than the steam drill.

  John Henry is a fair analogy.

  Yea, he barely beat the steam drill ... but it KILLED him.

Yup. But it's the stuff of legends. They killed his body but couldn't
kill his spirit.

There are a lot of versions. In some when John falls dead his wife, Polly
Ann, picks up the hammer and finishes the job. 'She drove steel like a
man.' In other versions John has two women. The one dressed in red, or
maybe blue, heads down the tracks and doesn't look back.






--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:50:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 20:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 17:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total
population, for ever, since 18 till death.

Neither did the communists or the EU

So? Theoretical communism is not as implemented by countries.

Looking out the door I see some horses but nary a unicorn.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Certainly those factors mitigate the effects. But there are certain
hard limits inherent in the Earth being finite.
If our population continues to double every 40 years, then in 1800 years
the entire mass of the planet will consist of people crawling over each
other like a swarm of bees.

Milford Wolpoff is a paleoanthropologist who prosed a multiregional model rather than the Out of Africa one put forward by Stringer and others. I
may have the wrong locale but I think it was Java. He remarked that a
problem for looking for ancient evidence was you were always digging in somebody's backyard. There are 3,100 people per square mile, the tightest packed island in the world.

* unless you consider Mumbai's historical seven islands.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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On 2026-06-18, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:26:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:26, c186282 wrote:

  John Henry is a fair analogy.

  Yea, he barely beat the steam drill ... but it KILLED him.

Yup. But it's the stuff of legends. They killed his body but couldn't
kill his spirit.

There are a lot of versions. In some when John falls dead his wife, Polly Ann, picks up the hammer and finishes the job. 'She drove steel like a
man.' In other versions John has two women. The one dressed in red, or
maybe blue, heads down the tracks and doesn't look back.

The Traveling McCourys did a good one about his support crew:

You swing the hammer, John, I'll hold the drill
I'll be your shaker, you know I always will
Careful with that hammer, my life is in your hands
If we don't make it through the mountain, John
I'll meet you over in the promised land
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people
living there.
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 21:46:40 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground
- a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some
adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined
as a virtue, things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people living there.

Until recently the Nordic countries had an an advantage. Your neighbor was Sven, not Mohammad, so it was a big happy family. I don't think the Nordic model is workable in a diverse society. Norway having oil money flowing in helped too.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/18/26 05:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says:

     Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a
     trillionaire instead of everyone having food?

False logic. Typical of the Left. 'money' is not 'wealth'

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

   Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

In HIS case ... I'd say "YES".

You don't have to agree - but it's true regardless.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/18/26 12:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

WRONG target.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/19/26 01:59, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 21:46:40 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground
- a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some
adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined
as a virtue, things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people
living there.

Until recently the Nordic countries had an an advantage. Your neighbor was Sven, not Mohammad, so it was a big happy family. I don't think the Nordic model is workable in a diverse society. Norway having oil money flowing in helped too.

Yep, the convenient UniCulture kind of collapsed.

NOW it's 'complicated' - sometimes to extremes.

Sweden is being beaten down by Islamist gangs now,
terrorizing everyone.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc


{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people living there.

None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in which
most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody has
money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow or make.

Economy would have to stop being based on work.

For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on the
Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People migrate
outworld to find jobs.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 01:36, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:50:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 20:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 17:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total
population, for ever, since 18 till death.

Neither did the communists or the EU

So? Theoretical communism is not as implemented by countries.

Looking out the door I see some horses but nary a unicorn.

We are just sitting at the pub and talking :-)
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and
schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general
realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his employees.

The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only
to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake.
--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

It depends on your definition of success. I've spent my life
avoiding what many people call "success". I'm doing all right
by my definition, though.

No argument there.

I made enough money to stop having to work for people I didn't like

A late friend felt she had failed because the never ran a FTSE 100 company.

Is Elon a happy man?
--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 19/06/2026 00:51, rbowman wrote:

Milford Wolpoff is a paleoanthropologist who prosed a multiregional model rather than the Out of Africa one put forward by Stringer and others. I
may have the wrong locale but I think it was Java. He remarked that a
problem for looking for ancient evidence was you were always digging in somebody's backyard. There are 3,100 people per square mile, the tightest packed island in the world.

The DNA evidence reveals a massively complex branching and interbreeding
of early homo species

Modern humans comprise DNA from Sapiens Neanderthal and Denisovan..and
there are many other extinct species who may or may not have wandered
out of Africa and set up camp in other places in the world.

And had sex with later arrivals,

"Around 6 million years ago, a branch of apes evolved to become the
first species of the genus Homo. These early humans ditched the long
arms of apes for stronger legs. While they could no longer swing around
on trees, they could stand upright, walk, and colonize new ecosystems,
away from the forest. The brains of early humans grew until we were
using complex tools to hunt large animals, build fires, and construct shelters.

"By the time Homo sapiens arrived on the scene some 300,000 years ago,
we were the ninth Homo species, joining habilis, erectus, rudolfensis, heidelbergensis, floresiensis, neanderthalensis, naledi, and luzonensis.
Many of these species lived for much longer periods of time than we have"

And that isn't even the latest statement.
--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 20:33, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:25:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

Agreed. Making your money by shorting the Bank of England like Soros or running casinos and whorehouse like Adelson isn't good. Speculators and market manipulators are scum.

The principle of shorting falling markets has validity. As is providing
what people will pay for.

That is not the issue. The issue is one of whether or not itts 'good'
and what that term actually means.
Given the death of God in the post modern society, and ultimately with
it a moral sense of rightness, what remains is only survival and what
promotes it, and/or the individual feeling of ones own success.

Developing real products like Musk, even if playing the system, is good.
I'll even gove props to Bezos. I remember when Amazon was books and CDs
and often promised more than they could deliver. I preferred Barnes &
Noble back then since they had what they sold in stock. Many dotcom
ventures failed; Amazon didn't. I'm not a fan but the Walton family also built something.

So what? Was it good? Was it bad?
It merely survived and prospered.
--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 18/06/2026 20:41, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:32:16 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Servile_State

Skimming wiki, that sounds about right...
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people living there.

Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either.
The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by
membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment.
The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded.
Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social
membership, and thereby enslaves.
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 19/06/2026 07:26, c186282 wrote:

  You don't have to agree - but it's true regardless.

The confidence and assurance of the totally ignorant.
--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 05:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The principle of shorting falling markets has validity. As is providing
what people will pay for.

That is not the issue. The issue is one of whether or not itts 'good'
and what that term actually means.
Given the death of God in the post modern society, and ultimately with
it a moral sense of rightness, what remains is only survival and what promotes it, and/or the individual feeling of ones own success.

On 18/06/2026 20:33, rbowman wrote:

Developing real products like Musk, even if playing the system, is good.
I'll even give props to Bezos. I remember when Amazon was books and CDs
and often promised more than they could deliver. I preferred Barnes &
Noble back then since they had what they sold in stock. Many dotcom
ventures failed; Amazon didn't. I'm not a fan but the Walton family also
built something.

So what? Was it good? Was it bad?
It merely survived and prospered.

I cannot fault Walmart's founders and management, By most accounts it is
an impressively well managed company. The mission statement is written
on every one of its stores, and it guides everything the company does:
"Always low prices".

What I will fault is a government that allowed it to grow excessively,
to where it was over 25% of all retail sales (and consequently 25% of
the domestic freight hauling market). And that has let Amazon do the same.
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people
living there.

Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either.
The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment.
The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded.

Or not. Here in Canada we also have McDonald's and Uber,
Microsoft and Google. Powerful multinationals blur the borders.

Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social
membership, and thereby enslaves.

+1
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and
schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his employees.

The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only
to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake.

Not for those currently at the top of the pyramid, alas.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 13:12:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The DNA evidence reveals a massively complex branching and interbreeding
of early homo species

Modern humans comprise DNA from Sapiens Neanderthal and Denisovan..and
there are many other extinct species who may or may not have wandered
out of Africa and set up camp in other places in the world.

And had sex with later arrivals,

Wolpoff's objection to Stringer's original hypothesis was there wasn't
enough time a movement out of Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago to explain
the worldwide diversity. Both Wolpoff and Caspari were branded as racists
by those who couldn't grasp multiregional evolution and thought he meant completely separate evolutionary paths.

https://www.edge.org/conversation/christopher_stringer-rethinking-out-of- africa

Stringer has revised his untenable theory. Like Gould and others there was more politics and wishful thinking than science.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 11:58:15 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-19 01:36, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:50:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 20:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 17:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 18:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 12:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-18 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Its already here.

MAGA is just another Glorious Revolution...
The EU is just another collection of comissariats.

Not even close.

No, bang on target

I don't see Trump mandating a universal salary on the total
population, for ever, since 18 till death.

Neither did the communists or the EU

So? Theoretical communism is not as implemented by countries.

Looking out the door I see some horses but nary a unicorn.

We are just sitting at the pub and talking :-)

Some things do seem more plausible after a few pints. I gave that stuff up long ago when I started slipping further and further from reality.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 12:56:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground
- a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some
adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined
as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and
schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his
employees.

The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only
to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Ford, his hero and mentor Edison, and Firestone thought they had been ill
used by the 'capitalists' of Wall Street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship

Ford was idealistic before he turned bitter. War is much more profitable
than peace so it was a lost cause.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 13:00:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

  Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

It depends on your definition of success. I've spent my life avoiding
what many people call "success". I'm doing all right by my definition,
though.

No argument there.

I made enough money to stop having to work for people I didn't like

A late friend felt she had failed because the never ran a FTSE 100
company.

Is Elon a happy man?

I think he is. From many reports the money is a side effect of him doing
what he wants to do.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 16:41:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Or not. Here in Canada we also have McDonald's and Uber, Microsoft and Google. Powerful multinationals blur the borders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUpmeak0pV4

'Many a Mile' Patrick Sky

I've seen your towns they are all the same
The only difference is in a name.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 12:56:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground
- a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some
adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined
as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and
schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general
realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his
employees.

The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only
to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Ford, his hero and mentor Edison, and Firestone thought they had been ill used by the 'capitalists' of Wall Street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship

Ford was idealistic before he turned bitter. War is much more profitable than peace so it was a lost cause.

https://www.politicalgraphics.org/post/war-is-not-healthy-poster-of-the-week

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/314425448249
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 19/06/2026 18:15, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 13:12:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The DNA evidence reveals a massively complex branching and interbreeding
of early homo species

Modern humans comprise DNA from Sapiens Neanderthal and Denisovan..and
there are many other extinct species who may or may not have wandered
out of Africa and set up camp in other places in the world.

And had sex with later arrivals,

Wolpoff's objection to Stringer's original hypothesis was there wasn't
enough time a movement out of Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago to explain the worldwide diversity.

That's because hom. sap. left Africa several hundred thousand years ago

"The team found part of a fossil human jaw with anatomical features that correspond to the modern human species Homo sapiens, as opposed to other pre-modern humans such as Neanderthals.

The researchers dated teeth from the jaw and flint tools found with the remains, obtaining an average age for the specimens of about
177,000-194,000 years old.

Until now, the earliest fossil evidence for Homo sapiens outside Africa
was from other sites in Israel, dating up to 130,000 years ago."

Both Wolpoff and Caspari were branded as racists

by those who couldn't grasp multiregional evolution and thought he meant completely separate evolutionary paths.

https://www.edge.org/conversation/christopher_stringer-rethinking-out-of- africa

Stringer has revised his untenable theory. Like Gould and others there was more politics and wishful thinking than science.

The more remains are discovered and the more DNA is analysed the more complicated things become.

Hon, sap. is not our only ancestor
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

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On Sat, 20 Jun 2026 00:10:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The more remains are discovered and the more DNA is analysed the more complicated things become.

The Just So Stories evolve faster than h. sapiens ever did. OOA presumed
L3 mtDNA left Africa headed east and evolved into the M lineages common through out Asia. Except for M1, which is found in north Africa. Either
some women got homesick and went back to north Africa or M arose
separately from the sub-Saharan L3.

I'm sure the analyses will lead to some surprises. Well before DNA
Sinclair Lewis wrote a novel 'Kingsblood Royal'. The protagonist starts a genealogical search expecting to find Charles II or someone up the family
tree and discovers a nigger in the woodpile, so to speak. It doesn't go
well.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
people living there.

None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in which most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody has
money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow or make.

As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.

Economy would have to stop being based on work.

Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
the effort.

For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on the Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People migrate outworld to find jobs.

Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.

If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
buy with it ?

Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
still required.

What happens if that no longer exists ?

SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
the same bullshit.

In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.

And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?

Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
using AI tools ROTS the human skill set :-)

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On 6/19/26 00:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people living there.

Ummmmm ... check again.

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On 6/19/26 08:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote:

    Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

It depends on your definition of success.  I've spent my life
avoiding what many people call "success".  I'm doing all right
by my definition, though.

No argument there.

I made enough money to stop having to work for people I didn't like

A late friend felt she had failed because the never ran a FTSE 100 company.

Is Elon a happy man?

Uh ... Elon is decidedly somewhere 'spectrum'
and close to IQ 200. For him "happy" has a very
different form and meaning than for most of us.

So yea, I figure he's THRILLED most of the time.
He sure seems like it. ALWAYS something new and
neat-o. If he lived 10,000 years he'd STILL
be 'thrilled'.


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On 6/19/26 08:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/06/2026 00:51, rbowman wrote:

Milford Wolpoff is a paleoanthropologist who prosed a multiregional model
rather than the Out of Africa one put forward by Stringer and others. I
may have the wrong locale but I think it was Java. He remarked that a
problem for looking for ancient evidence was you were always digging in
somebody's backyard. There are 3,100 people per square mile, the tightest
packed island in the world.

The DNA evidence reveals a massively complex branching and interbreeding
of early homo species

Yep !!!

NO SUCH THING as a 'standard human' at all. Just
hybrids of hybrids of hybrids for 300,000+ years.

DNA studies prove groups kept moving back and
forth and around - fucking anything that looked
good all along the way. Throw in some Neaderthal
and Denisovian and maybe a little Erectus too.

Genetic FESTIVAL !

The old religious stuff may say one thing, but
RESEARCH has shown something VERY different.

Oh yea, ALL THE DEVIL'S WORK to DECEIVE .... :-)

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/19/26 08:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/06/2026 20:33, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:25:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.

    Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂

False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good'

HAPPENED to be very profitable.

The "good" bit ... he'd have been well into
that whether it paid well or not.

He's just a kinda-spectrum near-genius. If
it's Cool and Neat-O then .....


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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 6/19/26 08:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
people living there.

Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either.
The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment.
The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded.
Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social
membership, and thereby enslaves.

Pay attention to the news from the last 10-15 years.

The 'socialist' Nordics ... it's all IMPLODING on them.

NOT a Real World / Real Human model. Can seem to work
for a LITTLE while ... but THEN .......

Too many hippies, not enough actual analysts.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Henry Ford was famous for decently paying
his workers.

Yea, boring jobs on The Line - but you COULD make
enough money to buy a house and a Model-T. Really
nobody else offered anything like that.

He turned bitter when UNIONS (commies) claimed he
was an 'exploiter' and wanted to extort mass
money from him.

Kinda sad ... Ford did have the wealth/clout/position
where he could have CRUSHED the US 'Red' movement -
not always by 'nice' means - way back then. He did
not - a too "ME"-oriented vision. Didn't look at the
Bigger Picture.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-20 05:50, c186282 wrote:

On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
people living there.

None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in
which most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody
has money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow
or make.

  As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
  no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.

Economy would have to stop being based on work.

  Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
  short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
  as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
  those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
  the effort.

For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on
the Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People
migrate outworld to find jobs.

  Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.

Taxes on robot factories. China is already doing this.

  If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
  the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
  buy with it ?

  Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
  will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
  billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
  do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
  still required.

  What happens if that no longer exists ?

  SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
  were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
  hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
  the same bullshit.

  In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
  one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
  Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
  would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
  and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.

  And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
  things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
  god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
  another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
  hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?

  Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
  using AI tools ROTS the human skill set  :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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On 6/20/26 02:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2026-06-20 05:50, c186282 wrote:

On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:

{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

[snipped]

So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)

Why go from one extreme to the other?  Perhaps there's
a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
perhaps.  It will take some adjustment, though - ever
since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
things have been going downhill.

There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada
and the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
people living there.

None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in
which most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works,
nobody has money to buy the things or products that the robot
factories grow or make.

   As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
   no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.

Economy would have to stop being based on work.

   Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
   short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
   as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
   those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
   the effort.

For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on
the Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People
migrate outworld to find jobs.

   Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.

Taxes on robot factories. China is already doing this.

   If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
   the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
   buy with it ?

   Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
   will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
   billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
   do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
   still required.

   What happens if that no longer exists ?

   SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
   were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
   hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
   the same bullshit.

   In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
   one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
   Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
   would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
   and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.

   And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
   things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
   god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
   another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
   hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?

   Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
   using AI tools ROTS the human skill set  :-)

--
Cheers

Thanks ... but this all MAY not be so "cheerful".

"AI" represents a MAJOR socioeconomic paradigm shift,
even worse than the Industrial Revolution.

Humans STILL had jobs, just a little different, when
automation became a thing. NOW - no future at all,
no utility, no clout.

And NOBODY of relevance seems INTERESTED in what to do
with all the obsoleted humans ......

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