From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action


You've probably seen it elsewhere, but Microsoft open-sourced the code
to the original Zork games.*

Not that it really means that much; the code had been released by (one
of) its original authors several years ago on github, and pretty much everything about the Z-machine interpreter had long ago been figured
out; Microsoft's actions are just making everything a bit more legal.
But even then, it's just the CODE and not the content that's open
source.

That's not to say the move is entirely unwelcome. Microsoft acquired
the IP with its purchase of Activision, who had been sitting on it,
Smaug-like, since the late 90s and refusing to do anything with the
property. So it's nice that we get at least THIS much. But we won't be
seeing any new Zork games any time soon.

And it's just the Zork games (that is, Zork, ZORK II, and Zork III)
that are open-sourced; the rest of the Infocom catalog is still
legally encumbered. Not that makes the games any harder to get, if
anyone really wants them.

*

But that's not really what I wanted to talk about. Rather, I figured
the news was excuse enough for me to dive into reminiscence about
"Zork" once more time.

*

"Zork" was one of the first computer games I ever played. I'd fiddled
about with arcade games before that, and even played some games on
early consoles, but when it came to games on an actual computer,
"Zork" was one of the earliest (I think an Apple-themed Pac-Man clone
and "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" predated it in my 'what have you
been playing' list, but "Zork" was still pretty early in my gaming
career.

So obviously I have fond memories of the game. Not so much for the
gameplay --some of the puzzles were rather nonsensical-- but for the
magical feeling of exploration it offered. Locations like the "Troll
Room", the "Round Room", the "Twisty Maze of Passages All Alike" and
--of course-- "Flood Control Dam #3" all remain engrained in my
memory. To some degree, all games I play to this day are still
competing against how excited I was to explore the Great Underground
Empire.

"Zork" (and the other Infocom titles) also made me learn to type and
figure out how computers worked. I might not have had the career I had
without those games. More, the Infocom games were directly responsible
for getting me involved in tabletop role-playing; my earliest
roleplaying adventures (before we even knew what that was!) was
leading my friends through maps that had the appearance and structure
of Infocom's 'Invisiclues' maps.

These days, I don't really have the patience for the old Infocom
classics. In part, it's the text-only interface; I've been spoiled by
modern visuals and, anyway, I really dislike reading stuff off of a
computer screen (especially in a game). The pacing and logic of the
puzzles of those old games don't engage me anymore, either. I've tried
going back and re-playing all the old Infocom games --some I've even
managed to finish again!-- but it's always a struggle to keep at it. I
just don't find the experience all that enjoyable anymore.

But I'll never forget the feeling of mystery and grandeur as I took my
first steps into the Great Underground Empire, and I'm grateful for
the time I spent with these classics back in the day. I don't know if
I'd ever recommend these games to a modern gamer --I honestly don't
think they hold up, what with their limited parsers, slow pacing and
often obtuse logic puzzles... not to mention the total lack of modern production values-- but for their time they really were incredible
games.

So I'm glad Microsoft open-sourced the game, if for no other reason
than made me think about these classics again.











* and if you haven't heard, here's the official announcement https://opensource.microsoft.com/blog/2025/11/20/preserving-code-that-shaped-generations-zork-i-ii-and-iii-go-open-source

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

I could never get into these text based adventure games.


Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

You've probably seen it elsewhere, but Microsoft open-sourced the code
to the original Zork games.*

Not that it really means that much; the code had been released by (one
of) its original authors several years ago on github, and pretty much everything about the Z-machine interpreter had long ago been figured
out; Microsoft's actions are just making everything a bit more legal.
But even then, it's just the CODE and not the content that's open
source.

That's not to say the move is entirely unwelcome. Microsoft acquired
the IP with its purchase of Activision, who had been sitting on it, Smaug-like, since the late 90s and refusing to do anything with the
property. So it's nice that we get at least THIS much. But we won't be
seeing any new Zork games any time soon.

And it's just the Zork games (that is, Zork, ZORK II, and Zork III)
that are open-sourced; the rest of the Infocom catalog is still
legally encumbered. Not that makes the games any harder to get, if
anyone really wants them.

*

But that's not really what I wanted to talk about. Rather, I figured
the news was excuse enough for me to dive into reminiscence about
"Zork" once more time.

*

"Zork" was one of the first computer games I ever played. I'd fiddled
about with arcade games before that, and even played some games on
early consoles, but when it came to games on an actual computer,
"Zork" was one of the earliest (I think an Apple-themed Pac-Man clone
and "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" predated it in my 'what have you
been playing' list, but "Zork" was still pretty early in my gaming
career.

So obviously I have fond memories of the game. Not so much for the
gameplay --some of the puzzles were rather nonsensical-- but for the
magical feeling of exploration it offered. Locations like the "Troll
Room", the "Round Room", the "Twisty Maze of Passages All Alike" and
--of course-- "Flood Control Dam #3" all remain engrained in my
memory. To some degree, all games I play to this day are still
competing against how excited I was to explore the Great Underground
Empire.

"Zork" (and the other Infocom titles) also made me learn to type and
figure out how computers worked. I might not have had the career I had without those games. More, the Infocom games were directly responsible
for getting me involved in tabletop role-playing; my earliest
roleplaying adventures (before we even knew what that was!) was
leading my friends through maps that had the appearance and structure
of Infocom's 'Invisiclues' maps.

These days, I don't really have the patience for the old Infocom
classics. In part, it's the text-only interface; I've been spoiled by
modern visuals and, anyway, I really dislike reading stuff off of a
computer screen (especially in a game). The pacing and logic of the
puzzles of those old games don't engage me anymore, either. I've tried
going back and re-playing all the old Infocom games --some I've even
managed to finish again!-- but it's always a struggle to keep at it. I
just don't find the experience all that enjoyable anymore.

But I'll never forget the feeling of mystery and grandeur as I took my
first steps into the Great Underground Empire, and I'm grateful for
the time I spent with these classics back in the day. I don't know if
I'd ever recommend these games to a modern gamer --I honestly don't
think they hold up, what with their limited parsers, slow pacing and
often obtuse logic puzzles... not to mention the total lack of modern production values-- but for their time they really were incredible
games.

So I'm glad Microsoft open-sourced the game, if for no other reason
than made me think about these classics again.

* and if you haven't heard, here's the official announcement https://opensource.microsoft.com/blog/2025/11/20/preserving-code-that-shaped-generations-zork-i-ii-and-iii-go-open-source

--
"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." --2 Corinthians 7:1. We need to be decontaminated!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

I gave up text adventures for graphical adventure games from
LucasArts (Lucasfilm Games back then), and then eventually Sierra on
my first PC. I can still go back and play text adventure games now,
but like Spalls, they can not hold my attention anymore the way they
once did.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

Understandable. They weren't the most accessible of games, and their
strengths were quickly matched by more graphical games. If you didn't
start playing them in their heyday, it's _really_ hard to see what the
appeal was... especially if you aren't a fan of logic puzzles to begin
with.

But for a time, these text-based 'interactive adventures' offered the
deepest and most complex world building, and allowed the most options
in interacting with said world. I'm sure that, at least to some
degree, there are _still_ text-adventures that allow you to do more
things than in any other game. It really comes down to how much effort
the implementor wants to put into his verbs, but because everything is text-based, its relatively simple* to add a new command or object.

But graphical games rapid closed the gap. Their worlds grew as
detailed (perhaps more; after all, 'a picture is worth a thousand
words' and all) and while text-adventures may have maintained the lead
in things-to-do, a lot of those actions were often superfluous to the
actual quest. Sure, it's great if you can '>THROW ROCK AT SEAGULLS'
but if those seagulls (and the rock) are just window-dressing, it
doesn't really add to the gameplay.

And some of the puzzles in text adventures were just so annoyingly
obtuse, whether because of limitations of the technology or on
purpose. You couldn't just >EAT ASPIRIN, no, the game insisted that
you >INGEST ANALGESIC. The text descriptions sometimes weren't that
good.** The genre fell out of favor fairly quickly once graphical
adventures took over. Especially for a medium designed around the
visual (e.g., VIDEO games), interactive text adventures were the
inferior product.

But for a while, they were truly amazing experiences, and nothing else
on the market matched them.








----

* Well, at least compared to what you have to do for a graphical
adventure, which required you to model the item, and then animate the
action. Want to ">EAT PARSNIP"? Just add a parsnip item, link it to
the eat verb, add a bit of text and maybe add an effect. (">You eat
the parsnip. It's very tasty." (effects: remove parsnip from
inventory, add -20hunger)"

** Zork II, for instance, was unsolvable for a lot of international
players because its description of a baseball diamond --something they
might not have a lot of familiarity with to begin with-- was
purposefully vague. But a PICTURE of the thing probably would have
cleared things up tremendously.



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:01:59 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was >Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

Oh gosh, the feelies! I'd forgotten about those. They added a whole
other part to the experience.

"Feelies" are the hard-copy bits that come with a video game.
Technically, these could include the box and manual, but the term is
usually associated with superfluous extras that adds a certain
tangibility to the otherwise ephermeral video game experience. These
can include things like "cloth maps" (which the Ultima CRPG series was
famous for), to the "Bobblehead statuette" that came with the "Fallout
3" game.

Infocom's text-adventure were famous for its feelies. The box and
manual were laviously illustrated (the whole thing was made to look
like a book, in keeping with the text-based theme of the experience,
as the manual was built into the box). There were often multiple
feelies that came with each game. "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy",
for instance, came with:

* a pin-on button that said "Don't Panic"
* "Peril-Sensitive" sunglasses (made of black-cardboard)
* a "microscopic space fleet" (enclosed in a small plastic
baggie. The space-fleet, being microscopic, is too small
to see. Don't open the bag or it will fly away! ;-)
* Some pocket-fluff (a bit of cotton-fluff in another baggie)
* an 'order of destruction' form for Arthur Dent's house
* a similar-looking form in alien-text, for Earth

Nowadays, feelies are mostly associated with "deluxe editions", and
usually cost extra. But with Infocom, they were just added bonuses to
the main package.

I'm not afraid to say that --as much as I loved the games at the
time-- I probably thought the feelies the best part of experience.
Especially for a game that was so entirely reliant on your imagination
to create the world around you, having something physical to focus on
really helped.



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure, Ant wrote:

That's not to say the move is entirely unwelcome. Microsoft acquired
the IP with its purchase of Activision, who had been sitting on it,
Smaug-like, since the late 90s and refusing to do anything with the
property. So it's nice that we get at least THIS much. But we won't be
seeing any new Zork games any time soon.

I bought both volumes of The Lost Treasures of Infocom. They republished everything when it was viable to do so.

It's still possible to get it on eBay if you want legal access to the
.dat files, the .pdf compilations, etc.

It's also possible to *claim* that you bought it, of course. I know that
I did, but I don't believe I can document it any longer. I have Infocom
up and down, including multiple native DOS versions of "zip."

WinFrotz is the way to do it now though. I have .z5's of all the
Invisiclues for that fresh, yellow revealer pen feel.

If anyone would like a Dropbox link, I would not hesitate to share my
abiding love for Interactive Fiction. I actually did a paper on it in my Advanced Writing class, and wrote a brief adventure in Inform 7 to
demonstrate the nature of it to the teacher and the class.
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:01:59 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,
Mike S. wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was >Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

I gave up text adventures for graphical adventure games from
LucasArts (Lucasfilm Games back then), and then eventually Sierra on
my first PC. I can still go back and play text adventure games now,
but like Spalls, they can not hold my attention anymore the way they
once did.

I started with Zork II, which is perhaps one of the hardest and weirdest
of them. That's how I learned what a "menhir" was.

It came in the special C=64 sleeve.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ensAAOSw5ltl5gkZ/s-l1200.jpg
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 11:35:46 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:01:59 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was >>Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

That was a nice one. Platypuses for the win! Wishbringer was a good one
to start with, as it was "novice" difficulty. As I mentioned up thread, I started with Zork II, which was brutal. Not as bad as Spellbreaker
though.

Oh gosh, the feelies! I'd forgotten about those. They added a whole
other part to the experience.

Yeah. I remember my Stellar Patrol card (from Planetfall) which said "Do
not spindle or mutilate" on the back. I immediately did so, and then
carried it in my wallet for years with a big white crease in the middle
of it. Ruined its collector's value, but it was soooo very funny to me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/63WipA9rQ8WcpejOUVm6T7Ai49ts_erNuL9nX5lozoMeKdUpgQSogIYLzciDkec2gY55ugZHjDmvWMg5C0KVcnm41Hr0HQH9gU4vCzfuYIr4NSCweyMwEg

It came in the big folder version. I had a big folder version of Infidel
too. The cover art was like an LP.

[snip]

Infocom's text-adventure were famous for its feelies. The box and
manual were laviously illustrated (the whole thing was made to look
like a book, in keeping with the text-based theme of the experience,
as the manual was built into the box). There were often multiple
feelies that came with each game. "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy",
for instance, came with:

* a pin-on button that said "Don't Panic"
* "Peril-Sensitive" sunglasses (made of black-cardboard)

I used these in a high-school presentation, because it was a public
speaking class and I had a horrible time making eye contact. So I took
that out of the equation. I got my best grade selling "Blackout Glasses."

* a "microscopic space fleet" (enclosed in a small plastic
baggie. The space-fleet, being microscopic, is too small
to see. Don't open the bag or it will fly away! ;-)

I fed them to my small dog. Useless as anything else. ;^)

* Some pocket-fluff (a bit of cotton-fluff in another baggie)
* an 'order of destruction' form for Arthur Dent's house
* a similar-looking form in alien-text, for Earth

Nowadays, feelies are mostly associated with "deluxe editions", and
usually cost extra. But with Infocom, they were just added bonuses to
the main package.

And some of them served as copy protection, like the map that came with Infidel, or the student ID in The Lurking Horror. Soooo much better than
a code wheel. You had to figure out which feelie mattered. Which was a
puzzle unto itself. I loved the "Oh shit! That came in the box!" moment.

The best feelies, hands down, were the scratch and sniff sheet for
Leather Goddesses of Phobos, and the "Colorforms" map that came with
Suspended. The latter was really useful for keeping track of your robots.
This was quality stuff from an age gone by.

Ahhh. I remember large spiral bound manuals too. <G>

I'm not afraid to say that --as much as I loved the games at the
time-- I probably thought the feelies the best part of experience.
Especially for a game that was so entirely reliant on your imagination
to create the world around you, having something physical to focus on
really helped.

I had my Quest of the Avatar coin, and my ankh, for years. I used the
Avatar coin as a prop in a particular D&D adventure. It was the key to a teleporter pad to an extradimensional tower of a mage that "just wanted
to be left the hell alone."

One of the cloth maps was sewn up as a dice bag.

Everything is an MTX or an NFT these days. Real is better. (You may now
rant about NFTs).
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 16:15:46 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I bought both volumes of The Lost Treasures of Infocom. They republished >everything when it was viable to do so.

Infocom (and later Activision) milked the Zork games for all they were
worth. They made Bethesda's re-releasing of "Skyrim" look tame in
comparison. ;-)

As far as I can tell, the original game is included in all of the
following editions:

Zork (mainframe) (1977)
Zork (Personal Software ed) (1981)*
Zork (folio edition) (1981) *
Zork (greybox) (1984)*
Zork Trilogy (1984)
Zork Solid Gold (1987)
Lost Treasures of Infocom (1991)
Zork Anthology (1994)
Classic Text Adventure Collection (1996)**
Infocom Comedy Collection (1995)
Zork Collection (1997)
Zork Classics Interactive Fiction (2000)

And none of that includes the releases of the game to different
hardware platforms (e.g., the original Zork came out on Apple, Atari,
C64, TSR-80, Mac, DOS, Amstrad, and more!). Even the "Lost Treasures
of Infocom" package came out on platforms ranging from the Apple II,
DOS, Windows, Macintosh, Amiga and --as late as 2012-- for
iPhone/iPad.

I bought them all, of course.*** ;-)

The Zork Anthology is _still_ available for sale on GOG and Steam https://www.gog.com/en/game/the_zork_anthology

That's a pretty good return on investment, I'd say.

----

For the longest time, I had a single install for all the Infocom games
that launched in a single DOSBox session, combining all the games into something that could be launched from a single BATch file (I prefer to
play the games in (emulated) DOS to recreate the original experience
rather than use a modern Frotz interpreter). These days I still have
the games on disk, but each game is launched individually through
Playnite.

Of all the Infocom text adventure games, I think "Enchanter" was
probably my favorite overall; "Zork" comes in a close second.
"Bureaucracy" and "Suspended" get a nod too. But these days, if I
_had_ to play an Infocom game, it would probably be one of their more
'modern' games that escaped the text-only interface: "Battletech: A
Crescent Hawk's Inception", or "Journey", most likely.


----
* these three editions were nearly identical digitally (minus some
bugfixes) and varied mostly in the format of their
packaging/manuals/feelies. All other editions had extra digital
content, either in the form of extras such as digital manuals or
artwork, or as part of a compilation with other games. But given how
important the feelies were to the games, I think they deserve separate representation in the list. ;-)

** This itself was re-released as part of the "Essentials" collection;
same content, different box.

*** Well, most. I missed out on all the pre-1984 'greybox' versions,
and I think I skipped "Zork Gold". But I'm pretty sure that, over the
years, I managed to snag all the various compilations that came out...
partly because of FOMO on some previously unreleased content, but also
mostly because they were so damned inexpensive (I think I got the Comedy/Adventure/SciFi/etc. collections for a $1 apiece!)

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 10:52:38 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

Of all the Infocom text adventure games, I think "Enchanter" was
probably my favorite overall; "Zork" comes in a close second.

GNUSTO NITFOL

"Bureaucracy" and "Suspended" get a nod too. But these days, if I
_had_ to play an Infocom game, it would probably be one of their more >'modern' games that escaped the text-only interface: "Battletech: A
Crescent Hawk's Inception", or "Journey", most likely.

Zork Zero is a fun way to get back into the Zork series, IMO. Make sure
you run it in dithered EGA. The VGA/MCGA graphics were not a strong look.

I think my all-time favorite is Trinity for its literary pedigree. It was
also a timely critique of Cold War madness. It was just... well written,
and chilling.

Close second is given to Suspended, which plausibly felt like you really
had been thawed out and needed to direct a bunch of robots to fix your
society. When you screwed up and they decided to open the chamber and
pull you out, to be executed, it's one of the best moments in gaming
history AFAIC. That it let you slaughter people by the millions as an
insane sociopath was an example of the kind of latitude the game gave you
to explore your confinement. The tactical team came for you PDQ.

While I liked the concept of A Mind Forever Voyaging, I was never able to
get into it. However, it gets honorable mention for really flexing the capabilities of IF as speculative fiction. It also had a Suspended-like mechanic to it, where you interfaced with databases and systems.
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 13:38:12 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Zork Zero is a fun way to get back into the Zork series, IMO. Make sure
you run it in dithered EGA. The VGA/MCGA graphics were not a strong look.

I don't have as fond memories of Zork Zero, probably because I was
starting to become seriously burnt out on the genre when I first
played it. And by that time, other games had rapidly caught up to the possibilities interactive text adventure offered, while "Zork Zero's" much-touted graphics didn't compare.

The end-result was that playing "Zork Zero" left me with a sour taste
that even after all these years I still haven't overcome.

While I liked the concept of A Mind Forever Voyaging, I was never able to
get into it. However, it gets honorable mention for really flexing the >capabilities of IF as speculative fiction. It also had a Suspended-like >mechanic to it, where you interfaced with databases and systems.

Speaking of 'interfacing with databases and systems' as a game
mechanic, the contemporary game "Portal" (no, not that one; this one
was released in 1986!) was always a favorite of mine, even if it was
more akin to an early 'walking sim' than a proper game. Except you
were walking through various databases and reading found articles that
--pieced together-- told you what had happened in your absence.


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Tue, 25 Nov 2025 10:48:21 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 13:38:12 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Zork Zero is a fun way to get back into the Zork series, IMO. Make sure
you run it in dithered EGA. The VGA/MCGA graphics were not a strong look.

I don't have as fond memories of Zork Zero, probably because I was
starting to become seriously burnt out on the genre when I first
played it. And by that time, other games had rapidly caught up to the >possibilities interactive text adventure offered, while "Zork Zero's" >much-touted graphics didn't compare.

The end-result was that playing "Zork Zero" left me with a sour taste
that even after all these years I still haven't overcome.

While I liked the concept of A Mind Forever Voyaging, I was never able to >>get into it. However, it gets honorable mention for really flexing the >>capabilities of IF as speculative fiction. It also had a Suspended-like >>mechanic to it, where you interfaced with databases and systems.

Speaking of 'interfacing with databases and systems' as a game
mechanic, the contemporary game "Portal" (no, not that one; this one
was released in 1986!) was always a favorite of mine, even if it was
more akin to an early 'walking sim' than a proper game. Except you
were walking through various databases and reading found articles that >--pieced together-- told you what had happened in your absence.

These are very terse replies for you. What have you done with Spalls, and
how much is the ransom to get him out of captivity?

Yeah, sorry about Zork Zero. It has its flaws, but it was a charming
sprawl of a game should you change your mind.
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Tue, 25 Nov 2025 09:54:24 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2025 10:48:21 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 13:38:12 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Zork Zero is a fun way to get back into the Zork series, IMO. Make sure >>>you run it in dithered EGA. The VGA/MCGA graphics were not a strong look.

I don't have as fond memories of Zork Zero, probably because I was
starting to become seriously burnt out on the genre when I first
played it. And by that time, other games had rapidly caught up to the >>possibilities interactive text adventure offered, while "Zork Zero's" >>much-touted graphics didn't compare.
The end-result was that playing "Zork Zero" left me with a sour taste
that even after all these years I still haven't overcome.

These are very terse replies for you. What have you done with Spalls, and
how much is the ransom to get him out of captivity?
Yeah, sorry about Zork Zero. It has its flaws, but it was a charming
sprawl of a game should you change your mind.

Oh, I'm not really disparaging the game, or even disagreeing that it
is a good starting point for new users

(Well, maybe the latter. I think the first game is a
better entry point. ;-)

I just don't remember it fondly for my own reasons that have little to
do with the game itself: my own tiredness of the genre, and the
entries lackluster showing against its competitors. And I'm not
entirely soured on it; the window dressing --unimpressive as it may
have been when put against games like "Kings Quest III"-- was still a
nice addition to a genre that had previously been solely comprised of white-text-on-black. The graphical puzzles --like the rebus-- added
some nice variation, and every Zork fan loved the online Encyclopedia Frobozzica.

[The built in mapping system was nice too, although
that predated "Zork Zero", having been introduced
with "Beyond Zork"]

I still think the other 'graphical text adventures" from Infocom --
"Arthur: Quest for Excalibur" and "James Clavell's Shogun"-- used the
format better than "Zork Zero". Although I had a sense of ennui
playing those too, they had a stronger sense of story and the visuals
were better integrated into the game.

Still, it wasn't until "Zork: Grand Inquisitor" and "Zork: Nemesis"
that my interest in the franchise started to re-invigorate. (I wanted
to be excited about "Return to Zork", but I just could not like that
game).

It's really hard for me to be completely negative about _any_ of
Infocom's products. They may not all have been great, but they were
all at least consistently _good_. Including "Zork Zero".








(was that long enough for you? ;-)


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On 11/22/2025 1:56 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

So obviously I have fond memories of the game. Not so much for the
gameplay --some of the puzzles were rather nonsensical-- but for the
magical feeling of exploration it offered. Locations like the "Troll
Room", the "Round Room", the "Twisty Maze of Passages All Alike" and
--of course-- "Flood Control Dam #3" all remain engrained in my
memory. To some degree, all games I play to this day are still
competing against how excited I was to explore the Great Underground
Empire.

Twisty maze of passages all alike is from Collossal Cave Adventure, so
Zork stole it from there. One of the few games I had to play on the
C/PM machine, which is the first computer games I played. Star Trek,
Wumpus, and Hamurabi are the other ones I remember.

I couldn't ever get very far in Adventure, couldn't ever figure out how
to get past the snake*, and the Twisty Maze was beyond me. To be fair I
was probably about 8 when I played CCA though. It left a bad taste in
my mouth for these types of games in any case. Star Trek and Hamurabi
were much more my style. Star Trek actually had an Ascii map of where
you were!

I played a little Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide on friends computers, but
didn't like them either. I remember the Babbel Fish was a ridiculous
puzzle where you'd get a little further, then have to figure out some
way past what then went wrong. Never got past that either. I remember looking it up years later once the internet was a thing and all the
steps were ridiculous, and I'm not sure how anyone figured that out.

All I remember of Zork was it wasn't as bad as the other two, and
getting eaten by a Grue repeatedly.

*Spoiler space for a 49 year old game:
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The canary can chase off the snake, which I found out decades later.
Like how am I supposed to know a little tiny bird can chase off a snake
that's deadly to you? Makes no sense.
--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Tue, 25 Nov 2025 12:43:46 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

(was that long enough for you? ;-)

I'm glad you were released. Let them know that I'm calling the
authorities next time. ;^)
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> writes:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

I remember a lot of simple text adventures before Zork, which I first
saw when a friend of mine got a C64. Was it Zork where you early find a
house and mailbox with an ad for Zork? Or maybe some other Infocom
games? I think that's about as far as we got.

Before it was stuff like the Scott Adams text adventure games that were
on carts for the VIC-20. Verb noun parser so pretty simple. Also The
Hobbit on ZX Spectrum, I remember it had graphics which it slowly *drew* everytime you went to a different room. RAM limitations back then.

I never got much anywhere with any of the text only games. I remember I
managed something called Gruds in Space, and also Tass Times in Tonetown
which were text adventures with graphics. These had puzzles that weren't completely ridiculous of the "try everything with everything everywhere"
kind. Or maybe they were just easy.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:21:21 +0200, Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:

Before it was stuff like the Scott Adams text adventure games that were
on carts for the VIC-20. Verb noun parser so pretty simple. Also The
Hobbit on ZX Spectrum, I remember it had graphics which it slowly *drew* >everytime you went to a different room. RAM limitations back then.

Yeah, I still have The Hobbit text advent rue box buried away
somewhere in my garage for the C-64. I remember the graphics drawing
very slowly as well. The game came with a physical copy of The Hobbit
book and I think that was the first book I ever read.

I never got much anywhere with any of the text only games. I remember I >managed something called Gruds in Space, and also Tass Times in Tonetown >which were text adventures with graphics. These had puzzles that weren't >completely ridiculous of the "try everything with everything everywhere" >kind. Or maybe they were just easy.

I own Tass Times in Tonetown as well and it too is buried away along
with The Hobbit. I never finished it. I rarely finished games back
then. Gruds in Space I never heard of.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:21:21 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Anssi Saari wrote:

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> writes:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 01:25:53 -0000 (UTC), ant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
wrote:

I could never get into these text based adventure games.

I did. I played a lot of them back in the day. I loved them so much.
Zork was not my first one though. I think the first one I played was
Wishbringer. It came with a glowing purple rock that I still have
today. It is the only 'feelie' I did not lose over the years.

I remember a lot of simple text adventures before Zork, which I first
saw when a friend of mine got a C64. Was it Zork where you early find a
house and mailbox with an ad for Zork? Or maybe some other Infocom
games? I think that's about as far as we got.

Before it was stuff like the Scott Adams text adventure games that were
on carts for the VIC-20. Verb noun parser so pretty simple. Also The
Hobbit on ZX Spectrum, I remember it had graphics which it slowly *drew* >everytime you went to a different room. RAM limitations back then.

I never got much anywhere with any of the text only games. I remember I >managed something called Gruds in Space, and also Tass Times in Tonetown >which were text adventures with graphics. These had puzzles that weren't >completely ridiculous of the "try everything with everything everywhere" >kind. Or maybe they were just easy.

My first text adventure was Colossal Cave on a CP/M machine. I was 8.
AD&D was just barely around. My dad's friend, "Crazy Harry," was a D&D
player, white box. During a visit, he started me out on Atari VCS Space Invaders, but I got bored with it. So he set me up with a text adventure.
I was frustrated by the puzzles of Colossal Cave, but kept playing
because of the wonderful illusion of freedom that you could do anything
in the game. I especially remember "Witt's End."

The first text adventure I completed was called Miser, on a Commodore
Pet, in the middle school computer lab. I was something like 11. It was
super crude, in BASIC, and had very few noun/verbs in the parser. We
moved on to Scott Adams' "Adventureland" with the mud and the chiggers,
which I could not finish.
--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Tue, 25 Nov 2025 16:02:23 -0800, Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I played a little Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide on friends computers, but >didn't like them either. I remember the Babbel Fish was a ridiculous
puzzle where you'd get a little further, then have to figure out some
way past what then went wrong. Never got past that either. I remember >looking it up years later once the internet was a thing and all the
steps were ridiculous, and I'm not sure how anyone figured that out.

Hitchhiker's was intentionally made to be obtuse; past the point of
being just 'difficult' and to the point where the game was nearly
difficult to finish without a lot of trial-n-error faffing about. The
'babel fish puzzle' was a perfect example of this; if you don't know
the steps ahead of time, you /won't/ be able to finish the game,
because there's a time limit (don't quote me on the numbers, but the
puzzle requires six or seven steps, and you only have ten or so turns
before you get a 'game over' by being shot out the airlock).

Similarly, if you don't feed the dog a sandwich at the beginning of
the game (something you'd have no reason to do at that point), you'll
get a game-over three quarters of the way into the game when you
revisit that location. It was malicious design... memorable BECAUSE of
that, but not a good example of what made the genre interesting. And
the game was FULL of similar tricks.

You figured it out by saving and restarting a lot, and trying every
option. The babel fish wasn't too bad, because --time limit aside--
the game did give you hints as to what you need to do. The fish falls
in the grate? Put something on top of the grate. The robot comes out
of the hole? Block the hole. The tricky part was doing it fast
enough... and for that the only solution was to fail, and fail, and
fail again.

An early 'git gud, scrub' game, perhaps? Or just a case of padding a
game's length with grindy puzzles? But, no, the author, Douglas Adams,
later admitted it was written to intentionally violate good game
design rules.

I played "Hitchhikers"; I finished "Hitchhikers"; I even _liked_ "Hitchhikers"... but mostly for its clever writing. It sucked as a
game. It was (intentionally) an example of everything bad about the
genre.







--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> writes:

I played a little Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide on friends computers,
but didn't like them either. I remember the Babbel Fish was a
ridiculous puzzle where you'd get a little further, then have to
figure out some way past what then went wrong. Never got past that
either. I remember looking it up years later once the internet was a
thing and all the steps were ridiculous, and I'm not sure how anyone
figured that out.

I remember I thought that too and dug up the book for help but of course
it didn't help. OTOH, my rather mathematically gifted friend claimed it
was entirely logical and he solved it with his also rather
mathematically gifted friend. So maybe it just takes a little more brain
power than commonly available. Or maybe they just brute forced it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 22:02:28 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Anssi Saari wrote:

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> writes:

I played a little Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide on friends computers,
but didn't like them either. I remember the Babbel Fish was a
ridiculous puzzle where you'd get a little further, then have to
figure out some way past what then went wrong. Never got past that
either. I remember looking it up years later once the internet was a
thing and all the steps were ridiculous, and I'm not sure how anyone
figured that out.

I remember I thought that too and dug up the book for help but of course
it didn't help. OTOH, my rather mathematically gifted friend claimed it
was entirely logical and he solved it with his also rather
mathematically gifted friend. So maybe it just takes a little more brain >power than commonly available. Or maybe they just brute forced it.

I ran out of fish the first time, solved it the second go round. It was
not one of the harder puzzles, but it was designed to be incredibly frustrating. The fish limit was especially a dirty trick. It was designed
to end the experimenting just before you figured it out.

Interestingly, the Infocom Invisiclues had a funny bit where it extended
the number of hints to be long enough for an alien species to be
interested in the game. Here's the complete rundown:

(36 hints left) > This puzzle has more clues than a Hitchhiker's Guide Mark IV has options.
(35 hints left) > Have you tried pressing the dispenser button?
(34 hints left) > You need to block the small hole.
(33 hints left) > Let's hope you aren't stuck here, because it only gets harder.
(32 hints left) > It has something to do with the hook above the hole.
(31 hints left) > You need to hang something on the hook.
(30 hints left) > Examine the gown.
(29 hints left) > Notice the loop? Hang the gown on the hook, then press the button again.
(28 hints left) > Well, you've made a little progress. Don't give up now.
(27 hints left) > You'll have to block the drain.
(26 hints left) > There's only one thing large enough to completely cover the drain.
(25 hints left) > Cover the drain with the towel, then push the button again. >(24 hints left) > Oh, well. Forging ahead, you'll have to block the tiny robot panel.
(23 hints left) > Standing or lying in front of the panel won't work.
(22 hints left) > You'll have to put some object in front of the panel.
(21 hints left) > If it isn't bulky enough, the cleaning robot dashes around it.
(20 hints left) > Examine all the objects around.
(19 hints left) > The satchel is bulky. Put it in front of the panel, then push the button again.
(18 hints left) > At this point, brave men have been known to break down and cry.
(17 hints left) > Read, very carefully, the paragraph when Ford goes to sleep. >(16 hints left) > Note that when you placed the satchel in front of the panel the response was "The satchel is now lying on its side in front of the panel."
(15 hints left) > The point of the two previous items is that you can put an object on top of the satchel.
(14 hints left) > Put something on the satchel, then push the dispenser button again.
(13 hints left) > Notice that the upper-half-of-the-room cleaning robot just manages to catch the second item.
(12 hints left) > Perhaps if there were several items on the satchel, they would all fly the air and confuse the flying robot.
(11 hints left) > Unfortunately, there's only room for one object on the satchel.
(10 hints left) > Do you have an object, or have you seen an object, that when flung into the air might act as many items?
(9 hints left) > Remember that when the upper-half-of-the-room cleaning robot grabbed the babel fish, before you put an object on the satchel, the text said that the fish was "the only flying junk" that the robot found.
(8 hints left) > Put the pile of junk mail on the satchel, then press the dispenser button again.
(7 hints left) > Voila!
(6 hints left) > *This space intentionally left blank.*
(5 hints left) > Incidentally, did you know that this is the longest question ever to appear in an InvisiClues hint booklet?
(4 hints left) > You see, the Kwimbucki of Zug Seven are avid interactive fiction fans, but they have one rather eccentric peculiarity.
(3 hints left) > They will not buy any work of interactive fiction unless its hint booklet has at least one question with over 35 items.
(2 hints left) > This is the 35th hint.
(1 hint left) > JJ. Our marketing department will be happy to know that Zug Seven sales have just skyrocketed.

[No more hints]

--
Zag

Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
and to utter freely according to conscience, above
all other liberties. ~John Milton
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